Podcast Episode:
If you have ever wanted to get to know your Frank Relationships family a lot better, this is the show for you. Stay tuned as your favorite hosts run their mouths about everything “relationships” that comes to mind on this edition of Frank Relationships.
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FRANK RELATIONSHIPS: HOSTS HANGOUT
Guest Co-Host: Hasanna
Date: April 4, 2016
Frank: If you have ever wanted to get to know your Frank Relationships family a lot better, this is the show for you. Stay tuned as your favorite hosts run their mouths about everything “relationships” that comes to mind on this edition of Frank Relationships.
Yeah. As always, those are my babies. Thanks for getting daddy’s daughter today.
Welcome to Frank Relationships where we provide a candid, fresh and frank look in the relationships with goals of acceptance, respect and flexibility. I’m Frank Love and you can find me, my blog and my various social media incarnations at franklove.com.
You can also find me on ABC’s Good Morning Washington most Friday mornings during the 9 o’ clock hour. If you’re listening to the show on Blog Talk Radio, please follow us and if via iTunes, please subscribe so that you can effortlessly get each show each week.
Also, if you’re enjoying the show and of course you are, please share with your family and/or friends on your favourite social media platform. We are looking to add new friends to our social media family over the course of the next week so please help us, help our community by spreading the word about the show.
Greetings to my co-host, Kweku.
Kweku: Greetings, greetings.
Frank: How are you doing, my friend?
Kweku: I’m good. How are you, Frank?
Frank: I’m great. Nancy Goldring?
Nancy: Hi, Frank.
Frank: The consummate generalist.
Nancy: Indeed.
Frank: Kweku, we still got to—
Kweku: Yeah I was about to say I don’t have any type of monicker…
Nancy: It’s okay. I think I’m going to change mine quarterly.
Kweku: Think so?
Nancy: Yeah. I feel like, you know, it’s good to embrace a new identity from time to time and I don’t want to be pitch and hold.
Frank: Do you know when the quarter ends?
Nancy: The quarter ends today.
Frank: She shut me up.
Nancy: I did but I realized I was right. I’m keeping track.
Frank: What’s up, Nancy?
Nancy: How are you?
Frank: I’m great.
Nancy: I am too, thank you.
Frank: I didn’t—did I ask you how you were? I said “what’s up?” I didn’t say “how are you doing?”
Nancy: I mean, I didn’t get lost in there.
Frank: You just volunteer I’m great.
Nancy: I’m great. You said “How are you doing?” I said “I’m great.”
Frank: I don’t think I said “How are you doing?”
Nancy: You did. [Cross talking] We’ll know when Jeff rolls back the tape.
Frank: Alright.
Nancy: Now we got to move on…
Frank: Now move forward. It’s also worth noting that there’s another chair available here in the studio each week. The team and I welcome a different guest co-host and so if you’re in the Washington D.C. area or travelling to the D.C. area and want to join us in the studio on a given Thursday morning where we record, email me at frank@franklove.com and let me know that you want to do so. Again, that’s frank@franklove.com.
And in that vain, we have our very first guest co-host here in the studio. It is reported to me that she’s a wonderful wife, mother, fried, and she comes to us by way of my house… and she is none other than my wife.
Nancy: Fabulous.
Kweku: You’re married?
Nancy: I used to wonder that when I was a listener.
Kweku: New information.
Frank: I talked about her periodically.
Nancy: Yes you do.
Frank: So, if you like me, wanted to know about the woman that would marry Frank Love, what it’s like to have a wonderful, handsome and charming husband and whatever how she feels like talking about, then stay tuned as your Frank Relationships Team talks with each other with every relationship issue that comes to mind along with our co-host for the day, Hasanna… Hello, wife.
Hasanna: Hello, good morning. That was a great introduction. I will take it. Good morning, family.
Nancy: Good morning.
Kweku: Good morning.
Nancy: You can go home, Frank.
Frank: No, I got to watch while sitting here.
Okay, we’ll start t off—actually the whole show. We’re not just starting it off to moving to something else. We’re going to talk about what’s new, what’s going on in the world of relationships for the entire hour. Okay, and Nancy looks prepared.
Nancy: Mercy. Novel [unclear]. She knows when the end of the quarter is. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I am the blond of the show and that was probably politically incorrect BUT here we go…
Frank: I will say nothing. Okay, what do you guys think of brothels? I was reading an obituary that actually I clipped on a newspaper a year ago.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: By a woman that ran a Parisian brothel. What do you guys think of—
Kweku: Where did you read that in?
Frank: In the Washington Post.
Kweku: You sure?
Frank: I’m positive.
Kweku: Okay, great.
Nancy: Oh because it was in Paris?
Kweku: Nah, I think he’s just making up some [unclear] brothel…
Frank: You thought she was going to catch me flat-footed?
Kweku: No, not at all. I just know you [unclear] with some live source [unclear].
Nancy: We’re coming up some… We ended up [unclear]…
Kweku: Watched people’s brought brothel [unclear]….
Frank: You didn’t think I was willing to say that it was actually my experience when I was in Paris 2 weeks ago?
Kweku: There you go.
Nancy: Wow.
Frank: Okay, Kweku. Since you’ve got something to say, what’s up? What do you think about brothels?
Kweku: Got nothing anything out of me. A brothel means you pay for services right?
Frank: Right.
Kweku: No… not for natural resources.
Nancy: “Not for natural resources”…
Kweku: It’s natural resource… Why pay? A wise man told me that recently. It’s a natural resource, why am I paying it?
Frank: Oil is a natural resource but you apy for that.
Kweku: It’s a little bit different.
Nancy: It’s been refined.
Kweku: Until I can’t… get that natural resource for free, I would [unclear] to get t for free.
Frank: See, this woman said… She said that there were two things that people would always pay money for—food and sex, and I wasn’t any good at cooking. Nancy, what do you think of brothels and what would do you think of men who procure those services?
Nancy: Well, the interesting thing is, even as you say that term I’m thinking… “Do they still have those?” it just sounds so archaic and like from yesteryear, you know?
Frank: What do you want to call it, a whorehouse?
Nancy: No, just the whole idea of going to a brothel. He first thing that popped into my mind is like a swinger’s club… where to me, that’s sort of slice at the pie, only you don’t pay. Da-da-da, right?
Kweku: [unclear] I had no idea.
Nancy: You don’t pay because you’re taking somebody for—you’re offering yourself as a service and a lot of times, [unclear] you’re bringing someone—
Frank: You’re sharing.
Nancy: You’re sharing, yes. So I’m thinking is that like the last one? The whole idea of a brothel just seems so…
Kweku: Where is?
Nancy: Far gone.
Frank: [Unclear] in Paris.
Nancy: Paris.
Frank: But this woman had phased out in the industry—
Nancy: Of course.
Frank: She said it had changed and that sort of thing.
Nancy: The industry has changed. That is not so as unavailable as it had been many, many moons ago.
Frank: You still got Nevada. You still got—prostitution is legal.
Nancy: Well—oh I’m not saying prostitution is not… just the whole brothel thing. And you said how she’s kind of phased out and I’m saying she’s phased out because the industry per se is changing—
Frank: The industry definitely changed.
Nancy: –in that, sex is not so… problematic to get it and…
Frank: For some people it is.
Nancy: Right, but those people—
Frank: Got other issues?
Nancy: They have to. They have other issues. So…
Kweku: [Unclear] needs a day coaching. The coaching…
Nancy: Yeah, if you’re having an issue getting yourself into a sexual relationship today, then you have some kind of overarching issue in my mind.
Frank: Really? I wonder if that’s just in your mind.
Nancy: Yeah. Well, it is in your mind. It’s still an issue.
Frank: I mean in yours.
Nancy: In mine?
Frank: Yeah. I wonder if that’s true.
Nancy: Why would you have trouble finding—unless you’re looking for something from it. I mean, jsut sex for sex-sake?
Kweku: Brothels provide… those like fantasies right? Like different experience like even though… your experience at home could be “normal”… like you go there… [unclear] fantasy world…
Nancy: Get your hair blown back…
Hasanna: And that’s why I believe that brothels still exist… They’re paying for a service, men are paying for a fantasy, prostitution is the oldest profession. Hey, if there’s people out there that are going to pay for the service, people got bills hat need to get paid, right?
Nancy: Wow.
Hasanna: People have things that they are not getting at home that they can get at the brothel.
Nancy: Right.
Frank: And so what do you think just men and prostitution?
Nancy: Frank. What do you think about Frank going to a brothel? Let’s get down to [unclear]…
Frank: Oh men, Nancy is just—
Hasanna: Oh wow.
[Cross talking]
Frank: I wasn’t going to ask that.
Nancy: Give people the due states they’re in the [unclear] for right…
Frank: Okay.
Nancy: Come on, come on.
Hasanna: Frank doesn’t need to go to a brothel or prostitution because—
Nancy: Every wife would say that…
Kweku: Such a kooky kind of response…
Hasanna: Because I feel like as a wife, I’m the fantasy, you know.
Nancy: You are. Preach!
Hasanna: I can become the fantasy [unclear].
Nancy: I got it.
Hasanna: Yeah, wives across America listening to this show become the fantasy of their husbands.
Nancy: Wow.
Kweku: That is so predictable.
Nancy: Wives across America probably think they are the fantasy for their husbands…
Kweku: That’s what she’s supposed to say and he’s to supposed to sit right over there and laugh it off.
Nancy: He’s not supposed to say nothing. He’s [unclear]…
Kweku: Laugh it off…
Hasanna: Honey…
Frank: You are my fantasy.
Nancy: Confirmed.
Frank: Right, right. Good to confirm but repeatedly. Yes, yes you’re right. You’re so right.
Jeff: I’ve never seen Frank blush. Look at that.
Nancy: The plot thinks [unclear]… Go on Frank.
Frank: I will throw in to the mix. My wife and I have been to Las Vegas together.
Nancy: To the brothel?
Frank: No.
Nancy: Or to the—
Frank: I mean, I just made it interesting.
Nancy: To one of those—oh [unclear]…
Frank: But never been to a brothel—if there is one.
Nancy: Well there’s the Playboy place.
Kweku: Why’d you mention that?
Frank: Because prostitution’s legal in Nevada.
Kweku: So you’ve had a prostitute?
Frank: No.
Kweku: So why’d you mention it? Ya’ll gambling?
Frank: Some interesting thing to say…
Kweku: You gambled?
Frank: We…
Hasanna: We did a little bit at the airport.
Frank: I mean we gamble like $5.
Hasanna: Right, at the airport.
Kweku: Just asking because we say prostitution, and he mentions Vegas and “my wife and I went to Vegas” but that was it.
Frank: I mean—
Nancy: I thought he was getting rid of [unclear]…
Kweku: Yeah I thought he would get us some good information.
Nancy: …considering an open relationship.
Kweku: Yeah.
Nancy: He’s toying with the ideas, Kweku. This is the research process.
Frank: What.
Nancy: Okay.
Kweku: Maybe they were like sometimes at religious conference or something…
Frank: No, no we just went to… Actually, we went for… What was that? It’s the electronics conference. I don’t even remember what it’s called. It’s a big electronic—
Jeff: Consumer electronics?
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: Okay.
Jeff: Big show, new devices and stuff.
Frank: It was years ago but… Sorry it’s not juicier than [unclear]…
Nancy: No, I thought you’d gone like you know….
Kweku: I will so not go there…
Jeff: Bunny ranch?
Nancy: The Bunny Ranch, yeah.
Kweku: Bunny Ranch, there you go…
Frank: So they—that’s a brothel?
Kweku: Eh look at that…
Nancy: Yeah…
Frank: Really?
Kweku: They had a whole—
Nancy: They used to have a reality show.
Kweku: There’s a series on HBO or something… Series on the Bunny Ranch.
Nancy: Yeah.
Kweku: [unclear] like I don’t know…
Jeff: Yeah, just drop my name when you walk in…
Nancy: You might get a discount…
Frank: Show your picture… Oh yeah, we know him.
Kweku: That’s where Llamar Odom was.
Jeff: That’s right.
Frank: Really?
Kweku: At the Bunny Ranch. Yeah. It’s in Vegas.
Frank: Wow. Okay.
Jeff: Now there’s the dynamic. Llamar Odom can certainly pull women.
Frank: Yes, yes. And so can most people who have the money to go to a brothel. Presumably, I mean, when I look at The God Father, there’s a scene where—actually it’s The God Father II, and there’s a scene with the senator that Michael wants to do some dealing with gets caught with a murdered woman in his bed. And so, I mean that’s just an—I mean, mind you, that scene was—the movie came out of ’74, I mean the scene was a lot further before that. But it’s just an example of a brothel existing and the type of people who patronized it. This guy was a senator.
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: I once heard a gentleman who frequents those places and those women… sort of a justification but also begins with a psychosis of people who do frequent those places. I’m not paying for sex, I’m paying for her to leave after sex.
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: Different.
Frank: Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
Hasanna: And there’s no effort that you have to put in. You got there, you don’t have to court anybody, you don’t have to put in the work. You go there and say “Hey, I want that one.” And she provides a service. So some men out here don’t want to put in the effort. They just want a service. It’s easy.
Jeff: World’s oldest profession.
Hasanna: That’s right.
Jeff: Reason why. Do any of you know any women or men who do that for a living or have done IT to make money?
Hasanna: No.
Kweku: Well…
Frank: Men who have done it for a living or even—
Nancy: Women.
Frank: I know men who have procured the services. I don’t know women who have done it. Atleast I don’t know that I know them.
Nancy: Right, that’s what I’m thinking.
Frank: That’s the thing. You don’t know and I would be remise and thinking that I didn’t know any woman who did that. I mean, it happens. In fact, funny enough entre into Maya Angelou—did you know Maya Angelou was a sex worker?
Nancy: At one time in her life, yes.
Frank: Yeah, yes.
Nancy: Yes.
Frank: That’s amazing to me and I didn’t really—I didn’t know that until reading her obituary or something like that. But she was a very insightful woman and a very accepting and peaceful woman. She had quite a bit of experience in areas that many people would consider risqué or problematic and that sort of thing. I mean, but she was something special.
Hasanna: Yeah, I read an article recently where somebody who’s popular in the media right now like a reality tv star or something referred to Maya Angelou as an old in a derogatory term and people were like all up and arms, “How can you call Maya Angelou that?” But in reality, she was.
Frank: Well… She was not—I don’t think she was old doing it.
Hasanna: No, I mean, the derogatory term being an old sex worker, somebody who’s very promiscuous and because of who she was in her later life, people were upset, “How can you call Maya Angelou that?” But the reality was, she was. She was a sex worker.
Frank: My understanding is that she didn’t have any problem with who she had been and who she was and she history. She was cool with it.
Nancy: I agree, I agree. I never had the impression of her that she had any issues with the way she had lived her life. She just—it was something that she had done, she was fine with it, she was also… an interracial with marriage.
Frank: I have no idea.
Nancy: Or relationship way before—
Frank: I didn’t know she was married.
Nancy: She has a son.
Frank: Yeah, I knew that.
Nancy: And I’m pretty sure her son is the product of an interracial relationship.
Frank: Her son is an author. His name’s Guy something…
Nancy: Not shocking.
Jeff: It wasn’t a relationship. We just hit it once, you know.
Kweku: Name is Guy Johnson.
Nancy: His father’s on the show.
Frank: Guy Johnson.
Nancy: Ooh… Frank.
Frank: What?
Nancy: Oh my goodness. So you said—
Jeff: Speaking of Johnson is that?
Nancy: Sort of, sort of. I found—I learned recently that William Shatner’s being sued for $170M of 59 year old—I think journalist—is suing him, saying that he is his father. Peter Sloan now Peter Shatner is saying that he is William Shatner’s long lost son and he is petitioning Shatner for a paternity test and he’s suing him for $170M that in now this is the child support case. [Unclear] that’s a super size.
Kweku: And disrespectful.
Frank: The grounds are basically child support? I didn’t make enough money when you were rising me or not raising me?
Hasanna: Was he raising him though if he’s his long lost son?
Nancy: No he didn’t raise his long lost… But he claims that he has met Shatner, spend time with him and evidently Shatner had a… I guess brief interlude with his mother. His mother put him up for adoption and he has atleast convinced himself that Shatner is his father and he wants Shatner to have a DNA test done to prove it.
Frank: Well if his mother put him up for adoption…
Nancy: How does he know any of this? That’s what I’m saying.
Frank: When he was legally somebody else’s child?
Nancy: LEGALLY somebody else’s child but evidently—
Frank: I assume if someone adopted him.
Nancy: Right. He’s suing Shatner for $170M saying he is his long lost son. So in my mind, that’s child support.
Frank: 150—
Nancy: 170.
Kweku: But he’s 59.
Nancy: And he’s 59 years old. That was the kicker for me too. I was like “Wow, no statute of limitations on that bad boy.”
Kweku: Get over it.
Frank: She’s—and the thing is , 59 years ago, nobody gave a dag on who William Shatner was. I mean Star Trek didn’t hit—Star Trek came into the scene in the ‘60s… What was it, late ‘60s? I don’t know… But…
Nancy: Yeah but when Shatner—
Frank: When he found some money—
Nancy: Became famous, isn’t relevant to him being somebody’s father. There’s no—one has no bearing on [unclear]…
Frank: He wouldn’t be suing him if he had no money…
Kweku: Will he? I mean…
Frank: I guess.
Kweku: He’s not legally obligated though if he was adopted.
Frank: That’s my point.
Kweku: He’s not legally obligated.
Nancy: He may not be. Listen, I’m just saying I thought it was over the top for a 59 year old to be suing somebody for—
Kweku: [unclear] daddy issues.
Nancy: So you need to have a paternity test done so you can prove my theory.
Frank: I don’t think daddy issues have a statute of limitations.
Nancy: Clearly, clearly.
Kweku: There’s a lag… 59…
Frank: Yeah, that’s real. Lucky you a lot.
Nancy: Your grandfather yourself.
Kweku: Exactly.
Nancy: Oh my gosh. So onward…
Frank: Alright, Nancy yeah you do that one on the table. That was—
Nancy: it’s somehow was appropriate in the moment.
Frank: You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re talking with each other. Yup, we took the day to chop it up with the team and our co-host for the day, Hasanna. Should we pay felons to not commit crimes?
Should we pay our—and of course it kind of the question is. What does it have to do with relationships? I’ll twist it into relationships. Should we pay our partners not to do things that we don’t want them to do?
Kweku: Absolutely not.
Frank: Absolutely.
Nancy: Well we bribe kids.
Kweku: You just threw morality out the door.
Nancy: Well morality is out the door.
Kweku: That see, the fact that you said that, that’s a problem.
Nancy: Why is it a problem?
Kweku: It’s a problem.
Nancy: Well let me roll that back. Let me have a Donald Trump moment and roll it back.
Frank: It’s not—if morality isn’t out the door in terms of existing—
Nancy: Right, or being real issue for people.
Kweku: It’s on the way out… that morality is holding on with both hands.
Frank: Morality exists for people who it exist for. I mean, but morality is only for those who believe morals, make them in their lives better. We can’t impose morality on people who don’t believe in it.
Nancy: You don’t think people are naturally moral?
Frank: I think some people are more drawn to the concept of morals that we are discussing. But there’s a concept of morals that says… “Living to die” or “killing be killed”… or “Live by the sword, die by the sword.”
Nancy: Yeah.
Frank: That can be considered moral.
Nancy: A moral code.
Frank: A moral code, yes.
Nancy: Okay.
Kweku: But those situations like that contribute to morality getting pushed out of the way, I mean—
Nancy: No, I think the moral conversation evolves as we do if in fact we have.
Kweku: Circumstances create—certain situations create that environment where morals don’t even count anymore. So if you start introducing certain things—
Frank: They come to mind?
Kweku: Based on money, the question that you just asked that’s pay felons or pay—
Nancy: A partner.
Kweku: It’s like, if I can receive his, then like where’s the learning piece at?
Frank: Well what’s the goal?
Kweku: Let’s use children…
Nancy: Yeah.
Kweku: As an example which show us and so forth. So, in order for you to clean your own house, you get paid. If that’s all you know, others have to teach you how to clean your house when you get your own house or the importance of contributing to family and that kind of thing. Like, what do you learn it from that by getting paid all the time?
Frank: Well you tell me. I’ve been to your house.
Kweku: What house you’ve been to?
Nancy: Was it clean?
Frank: Kweku… Kweku is not the neatest…
Nancy: That’s because his kids are not being paid…
Frank: And we grew up together.
Kweku: Yeah, yeah. We’re going deep. Your room was immaculate.
Frank: Yeah.
Kweku: Who did you pay for?
Frank: No.
Kweku: I know this. That’s why I’m trying to tell you.
Frank: But some people are that way. I mean…
Nancy: You mean you’re natural born neat-free?
Frank: I’m not a neat-freak.
Kweku: He was… [unclear].
Frank: Freak? I wouldn’t say. Nah, I mean, my car is neat, it’s not clean.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: So it’s not vacuumed and detail but it’s neat.
Nancy: I got you.
Frank: It’s got dust all over the place and dirt and debris and stuff like that…
Nancy: But you just don’t keep a whole bunch of stuff laying on the back seat?
Frank: Exactly, or on the front seat or anything like that.
Kweku: Do the kids clean up? Hey, younger.
Frank: Well, none of them are—
Kweku: But that was just an example I’m using so—
Frank: I understand.
Kweku: Like let’s—[unclear] like you said, pay felons to…
Nancy: Well shoot. If you’re going to pay felons, you’re going to have to pay everybody.
Frank: No, you wouldn’t because certain people don’t want to be paid.
Hasanna: I understand the paying of felons and that seems to be working at some places in the West Coast, they’re actually using this model and crime rates have gone down. With felons, a lot of times, they’re committing these crimes because they’re trying to get money whether they’re selling drugs, or like gang activity… It’s about making money. so to pay them off, hey, if that works—
Nancy: But are we paying them not just to commit crimes or are they working? Is it working, a form of not—
Frank: No, they’re not working.
Hasanna: So what they’re doing also under that model, they’re paying the not to commit crimes and they’re hiring them to mentor younger people for them not to commit crimes in the article. That’s an article I read.
Kweku: Where’s this?
Hasanna: It was LA.
Frank: San Francisco.
Hasanna: Or San Francisco, something like that. So hey, if that works, I’m all for it. Now for paying your partner, I don’t agree with that or paying children, I don’t agree with that.
Kweku: What kind exactly you use for paying a partner? What did you mean by that?
Nancy: We pay them not to take on… a lover. I mean what else?
Kweku: You got to do that. I mean…
Nancy: Right.
Hasanna: Right.
Frank: It’s a similar concept so…
Nancy: Yes.
Frank: I know a woman who is… successful, college graduate was raised and grew up in Blue Collar, America. She’s got two younger sisters. One of her younger sisters is in—she’s… got to describe it… one of her younger sisters, she has children and she also lives basically on welfare, she just has disability. If she wanted to be—the woman I’m talking about—believes that if her sister wanted to be… a productive citizen, work and all that, that she could. But she sees this, she’s irritated at her sister for being on welfare and in some ways having a home, a house that she lives in and that sort of thing, and I’ve said the few times when I’ve had this conversation, I’ve said “Don’t compare yourself.” Her thing was “I work. I go to work. I do this and this so I can have x, y, and z. But she has this things and doesn’t working and can’t.”
Well, my response was “Don’t compare yourself how you’re going to define yourself.” So this touches on the morality piece in terms of you don’t have to pay people who already have those morals and who believe that we should not go and knock people on the head to take their money because they don’t need that incentive but some people might need that incentive. And she is driven to do whatever—because that’s who she is. She wanted to go to college and wanted to do all of the stuff she does. However, her sister didn’t want to do that and is not driven enough in that capacity and does get in some ways what’s considered a handout—
Nancy: Rewarded.
Frank: Or rewarded and that sort of thing. So it’s all over the place.
Kweku: You think her sister aspire to be on welfare?
Nancy: Well she is atleast asserting that she doesn’t aspire to be off of it.
Kweku: Well—so something happen, I don’t know if some type of family experience so certain… family members aren’t as motivated, some people aren’t as motivated. So… when you give “handouts” like what’s to learn a lesson… How do you incur somebody to say for example, he’s successful. You trying to assist me being successful. It’s almost like you giving up on a person and the person gave up on his self. So I get perfect example. In some states, this be Colombia included or the juveniles, that you can commit the most heinous crime and still receive all like any resources that you need in the city. You’re going to receive and regardless of what the crime is, if you’re a juvenile. And so, I’m telling about murder, I’m telling about rape, robbery, all of the above. And because you are juvenile, you won’t necessarily be, you won’t be treated as an adult and you have opportunities—
Nancy: To transcend your transgressions?
Kweku: To rehab.
Nancy: Okay.
Kweku: Turn yourself around.
Nancy: Okay.
Kweku: Do what you need to do. Some juveniles in these states are able to do that, most don’t and so you have a situation, all these resources are going to this person… adults as well as far as rehabilitation and so forth. All of these resources and all these money is going to this situation. Often times, it doesn’t work as opposed to—I don’t want to say “as opposed to”… But often times, there’s not a real rehab especially with the juveniles. It’s like here, take it. [Unclear] for us to say we’re doing this but you’re not really learning anything. A lot of them end up in the adult system. They may have prepared for their adult system but I’m talking about real resources. Someone saw there was a joke we always have… [Unclear] like… see they have a teenager. So we just went to school and of course we paying tuition and so forth. Now you tell them all the time, “You know what I should had you [unclear] when you were younger. So you go to school for free.” That’s really what happens. And so as it relates to morality, once you start paying people—
Frank: But if you could… if you had another child, what would you have that child robbing people so that they can go—exactly.
Kweku: No, that’s what I’m trying to say.
Frank: So you have a code of your own.
Kweku: Right, well we have a code.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Kweku: So he has a code. My daughter has a code. My older daughter has a code. My mother—you now, we all have a code because that’s how we were brought up. Now everybody hasn’t been on the same plane as far as success, finishing school, everybody didn’t do the same thing, we all had different paths but there was a basic foundation which includes a nice hip of morality that was included in that. So when you mentioned the sisters, there was some type of disconnect with one of the sisters and—
Nancy: Or they are operating from the same code from different ends of the spectrum. So she’s not robbing anybody. The system is essentially set up in such a way that she can have—I’m assuming she has a couple of children and therefore, she’s receiving resources from the state and—
Frank: And the other sister.
Nancy: And oh… no wonder she’s upset. She has to then support that situation.
Frank: The taxes.
Nancy: Oh, yeah well through taxes.
Kweku: Absolutely.
Nancy: We’re all supporting the situation through taxes. However, I’m sure she sees herself as much of an upstanding law abiding citizen who’s contributing to society if for no other reason, then she doesn’t feel she’s taking away anything and she does have 2 children which are the future.
Frank: Well perhaps she does feel she’s taking something away and doesn’t mind.
Nancy: And doesn’t mind.
Kweku: I mean… when the starting [unclear] she may feel as though that’s an avenue she needs to take in order to get what she wants. Maybe she hasn’t discovered exactly what it is she wants to do with her life but it’s an option for her.
Nancy: And she’s taking it.
Kweku: As opposed to just straight poverty, homelessness, and so forth. I mean, use the opportunity but I doubt when she was younger it was like I’m daddy’s baby… But—
Frank: Some people do say that.
Nancy: Really?
Kweku: But that’s what they know. That’s what they know.
Nancy: Wow.
Hasanna: A lot of it is cyclical too. Especially if—and I don’t know what her family was like but if she saw that, my aunt said, my mom was a part of that cycle. That’s just a continuation and it might be that here older sister or her sister, the one that went to college was the one that broke free, like she’s the anomaly. She’s the—
Nancy: That’s the decision she had to make.
Hasanna: Right.
Nancy: That’s funny. When you put it that way, I’m thinking, “Oh, I know people like that. I know people in that situation where they… let’s say there’s a dynamic, there are 2, 3 kids and they grew up maybe in subsidized housing and… half the kids, 3, 4 of the kids say “I’m going forward. This is not going to be my life, my reality.” They get educated, they find themselves in respectable professions and live successful lives and then you have one or two of them who are in public housing—
Frank: Stay in public housing.
Nancy: Stay in public housing, live within the limits and parameters of public housing and have absolutely no problem with it and feel as much as a part of functional dynamic as there’s sisters and brothers who are going out and getting it.
Frank: So back to the original question. Should we pay felons to not commit crimes AND should we pay partners not to do things that we don’t want them to do.
Nancy: I definitely cannot get behind the partner piece. I mean, that is like so… counter-intuitive to me. When am I thinking a grown person not to do?
Hasanna: What happened to working things out? Talking through some thing… Why do I have to pay?
Nancy: Because you’re obviously married to someone you cannot talk to who is not going to listen and is going to do what they’re going to do anyway and I submit to you… that there are people paying their maids not to do things, is just not—
Frank: Money.
Nancy: Maybe it’s not money or is not literal. So if you are say, hypothetically, married to a woman who is… my girlfriend has a saying “Paying the cost to be the boss,” essentially, you keep yourself in check because she’s providing the lifestyle. So on some level, you’re being paid to conduct yourself in a particular way as it relates to being in a relationship with her. So in that regard, that stuff is happening. We just don’t call it paying our partners to do or not do something.
Frank: Okay. So the conclusion is… You got something Jeff?
Jeff: Well, I thought where you were going with this is we as a society already do that.
Nancy: Yeah.
Jeff: I’m going to go rob a bank, and for the rest of the life, the government is going to pay me to live in a comfortable cell and feed me 3 meals a day.
Nancy: 3 meals a day.
Jeff: I’m getting paid for committing a crime. Guess who’s paying?
Nancy: Well…
Jeff: Yeah. Someone’s picking up my rent.
Nancy: I’m not debating that point but here’s the thing… that’s a double-edge sword because yes, somebody’s paying my rent, I’m eating 3 meals a day, I’m living in a monstrous environment atleast that’s my perception of it… However, you commit the crime and for the resources having some place to sleep and 3 meals a day, you now become a… can I use the word “slave”? You become an employee in a different kind of system.
So the idea that prisoners aren’t getting paid, I mean the ones that opt to work (because you can work in prison) are getting paid what? $2-$3 if that, to maybe a day to build furniture, make uniforms, their even butchers. So a lot of the workforce that we think is dissolving maybe going to other parts of the world si actually right here in the prison system.
Jeff: It’s called “bartering.”
Nancy: Is that what you call it?
Jeff: Well… I grew up in a small town and there were a few homeless people that we knew because they were—it’s a small town. You just knew. When it was cold, they didn’t have a place to stay, they would do something non-violent. They would jaywalk.
Nancy: Okay.
Jeff: They would stand in the middle of the road to get arrested and have a warm place to sleep. Uncomfortable, but they slept in the cell that night instead of on the crate.
Nancy: Yeah. But I think it’s a lot more intense than that now. I think that it’s just the term you used earlier, I was thinking that the operative word in your sentence was being “prepared” for the prison system, being “prepared” for the prison system meaning that we’re going to set you up to work for us at a fraction of what you would get paid, out in the world where you would still have your freedom—
Frank: But you and I are still paying…
Nancy: Yes.
Frank: For those expenses, those related expenses.
Nancy: Yes, yes.
Frank: Well, I don’t think we‘ve come to a particular conclusion here. But…
Nancy: Indeed. Other than that is not working… Yeah, it’s not working.
Kweku: I think we did have a conclusion. The felons is like—so Hasanna’s model, what she brought up, that I would agree with. Not necessarily to pay a felon not to commit crime but use whatever resources so they—
Nancy: I like the mentoring aspect of that.
Kweku: You hear that method, that’s different than paying them not to do a crime.
Nancy: And the question is statistically how workable is that?
Kweku: But to pay is significant other to do, I still don’t understand. I don’t really have a good functional example in that way for you to give us one.
Frank: I was—
Nancy: He just threw it out there.
Frank: Just spinning it into an issue into one of relationships. and that’s the best…
Nancy: Yeah, yeah.
Frank: I could come up with.
Nancy: That’s cool, that’s cool.
Frank: There was a woman who’s named Demetria Lucas and she wrote a book called “A Bell and Brooklyn,” something like that but she’s a relationship person.
Nancy: Yeah, yes. Right.
Frank: She writes and talks about relationships… and I recently heard her on the Tom Journey Morning Show talking about an article that she wrote related to Reverend Run and Tyreese’s show called “It’s not You, It’s Men”—something like that… And in the article, she—my understanding of it, so well I could be wrong but my understanding was Reverend Run and Tyreese said that they thought that women should dress the way they wanted to be treated and it had to do with harassment and that sort of thing… that women should dress the way they wanted to be treated and I believe Demetria thought that that was wrong, like women shouldn’t be harassed, period.
Nancy: Right.
Frank: Now it’s just that simple. And for these men to say that harassment is in any way correlated with “the way they dress” is sexist. And I disagree. I disagree with her vehement disagreement with them. Now I have 3 daughters and while I don’t think that they should be “harassed” when they’re navigating in the community and giving them the tools that they need to be successful, what I think would help them be successful, I want them to know that the way you present yourself matters… and it does have an effect on the people around you. I don’t see it as sexist for… I don’t see what Reverend Run and Tyreese said as sexist that what you do matters. It’s the same for males and the way you dress when you navigate the community. They… I have two sons and I believe that you have a greater chance at getting home safe, not being—particularly not being shot by a police officer—
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: If you wear a collared shirt than if you wear a hoodie and a t-shirt. I want them to know that and whether it’s right or wrong, whether it’s the way it “should be” or not is real and I want you to know it so that you can rely on that if you want to come home at night… and I want you to come home at night. Is what they said sexist? Do you agree, disagree? What are your thoughts?
Kweku: I’ve got a kid but I’ll answer this…
Frank: And who are you—why are you being careful? Because the way your daughter might take it?
Kweku: Nah. Because I had this conversation. I had this conversation recently but it was a brief conversation. You know that conversation which is significantly that one… this style’s going no direction.
Nancy: So you get out of it real quick?
Kweku: You just start telling more popcorn [unclear]…
Nancy: Whether it’s organic.
Frank: Over [unclear].
Kweku: Personally, I just feel like sometimes we… like that gray area’s too big. It is like… men have perspective, women have perspective. And sometimes we get caught on thing we ought to think we all supposed to think the same thing at the same time. A man’s perspective is going to be based on his experience. And this malehood, just and in vice versa. So I have doing as well. One of the things I do with my youngest and my oldest, is “What you got on? Are you about to go outside like that?” and the reason I’m saying is because I know, I’m a man. I look at women all day long and when I look at them, based on what they have does have an effect on what I’m thinking. Not necessarily extremely or—
Frank: Right, you’re not going to pat her on the—
Nancy: He’s influenced.
Kweku: No, no yeah… I’m not going to open the window but you do… when you look as a man, you look differently as someone… I mean… I find people fully attractive for different reasons but… when it’s mine, it’s my daughter and I see she’s trying to walk out of the house with just little shorts on or whatever in this home, it’s appropriate in society to accept it but for me, it’s like “Ahh I don’t know about those shorts.” [Unclear] windows [unclear] but I still—
Frank: Say it.
Kweku: Yeah something in me just like—I don’t really—I don’t like that because when I see that in the community industries or whatever, I think of a certain way. I don’t think the woman is a certain kind of person. It’s just that the way you’re dressed, I look at you a certain way like not like I’m necessarily attractive like yeah, like look at them legs like… you know… if you hadn’t the shorts on, I wouldn’t be able to see them legs. You know what I’m saying?
Frank: Right.
Hasanna: Absolutely.
Kweku: I mean, that’s all that is. It’s perspective and often times, we feel like we’re supposed to agree on the same things.
Nancy: Hasanna?
Hasanna: Demetria, I understand her feminist perspective and that a woman should be able to wear whatever it is she wants to wear if it makes her feel confident and beautiful, wear it. But on the other hand, the reality is… you are judged based on what you look like in our culture. So…
Frank: That’s for the men and women.
Hasanna: That’s for men and women. That’s everybody.
Nancy: In every culture, yeah.
Hasanna: But as a mother, you know… I have a teenager and if she’s wearing a bodycon dress—woah, woah, woah, wait a minute. Wait a minute because people—
Nancy: A bodycon?
Hasanna: A bodycon, you know one of those dresses that are very tight-fitting and show off all of your curves.
Nancy: Oh yeah, yeah… Your curves. Yeah.
Hasanna: You know little girls build a little differently than they were when I was growing up. So…
Kweku: [Unclear]…
Hasanna: You know, the world is going to look at you and judge you based on what you have on. There’s a level of respect that comes along with what you have on and how you’re treated. So… as a mom, we’re checking wardrobes at the door. What are you doing?
Nancy: Right. What’s the message?
Hasanna: In this world, you got to function in this world and people are going to treat you… based on what you look like. That’s just how it is.
Frank: At some level, you agree with Reverend Run and Tyreese?
Hasanna: I do, I agree with them. I agree with them more so than the feminist perspective… because that’s the reality.
Kweku: But wasn’t… what they were talking about was… it was more so about…
Frank: Rape…
Kweku: Yeah and consensual sex and that’s what they were talking about and that it’s referenced to how you dress to that kind of thing and now so that’s what they were talking about… I’m 100% with that. I mean, you can be butt-naked if you like, now just… I mean…
Frank: You know, Dr. Ruth and again, this is my recollection of what Dr. Ruth said, but Dr. Ruth has said “If a woman—a woman should not put herself—”she said something to the effect of “if you are naked with a man, or if you are in a situation like that, he’s not wrong for taking it.” I think that’s—
Nancy: For taking it?
Frank: Yes. If you two are all butt-naked, then he’s not wrong for pushing the envelope but something to that effect, that’s my lose recollection.
Nancy: Wow.
Kweku: Yeah.
Nancy: That’s intense.
Hasanna: No way.
Nancy: Yeah. Yeah, I can’t get behind that at all.
Kweku: But there are a lot of people do…
Nancy: I can get her saying that it just doesn’t make sense to put yourself in a compromising situation especially a situation you don’t want to be in.
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: So if I don’t want to be attacked by a man, then we need to have some kind of background of relatedness, such that if I find myself vulnerable in his company whether I’m naked or you know… I’m changing clothes or something like that, I need to have done… I need to have checked in with myself about who he is before I even—
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: Put myself in that position. I mean, there might be men in the world that… I would even use the restroom if it was just me in there. I would just say “Oh it’s great to see you” and move on and go someplace else where I feel more comfortable. So and on some level, when anyone gets dressed, I submit… on some level however my nude, you’re getting dressed with some level of consciousness. You’re getting dressed with the intent to feel a particular way about yourself or to send a certain quality of message to others. Fashion is a communication.
Frank: It is.
Nancy: It’s a language.
Frank: It absolutely is.
Nancy: So I have a difficult time believing that we don’t, men or women, go out dressed the way we want to be treated. Now that doesn’t mean I want to be attacked.
Frank: Yes.
Nancy: It does mean that I may be in the spirit, the zone, of my sensuality and I want to express that fully. I want to kind of steep myself in the power of that energy. That doesn’t mean I want to be attacked AND I submit to you that you can do that and not reveal anything. That is the misconception that we are under, that we must… that our boobs have to be out and that our butt has to be… you know…
Frank: In order to what?
Nancy: In order to attract or whether it’s to attract a certain quality of attention from the opposite sex or the same sex for that matter today, or to express the energy I’m feeling. I can feel asexually vibrant as all get out and be al covered up. And trust me, it transmits.
Frank: It does.
Nancy: It transmits.
Frank: It does.
Nancy: So, and the one thing I’d like to say is I don’t think—I’m thinking in my own experience and the experience of friends—I can’t think of any woman who could say, let’s say if she’s been experiencing cat calls or whatever that oftentimes is like you know it has nothing to do with what you have on—
Hasanna: That’s true.
Nancy: Or what you look like because it’s your top-notch worse day, year or month and this guy is just acting… he’s on automatic a lot of times.
Frank: He’s doing his thing.
Nancy: A lot of times, the guys just on automatic, he’s testing the water, he’s pushing the envelope, he’s just checking to see if you’re going to be rude a lot of times. And I learned years ago, all for no resistance, if a guy says “Hey, how you doing? What’s up beautiful?” You turn around and say “Hey, how you doing?” you return that energy in kind and you keep it moving.
Frank: Nice.
Nancy: Yeah.
Frank: Okay, okay. You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re talking to each other.
Nancy: Mercy.
Frank: Yup, we took the day to chop it up with the team and our co-host for today, Hasanna. Is rape—when we talk about rape, is all rape are there gradients to it?
Nancy: Oh absolutely even in the law. First, second, third and fourth degree.
Frank: Okay.
Nancy: You force a woman to kiss you, that’s fourth degree rape—keep that in mind guys.
Frank: If you force a woman to kiss you?
Nancy: If you force a woman to kiss you.
Frank: Okay.
Nancy: It is by law considered fourth degree rape, yes it is.
Frank: And third degree? Would be do you know?
Nancy: I don’t know what third degree is. Obviously first degree is… I would imagine penetration and second and third degree, I’m not clear on but I was so blown away that fourth degree is a forced kiss that I just remembered it.
Frank: I’ve often wondered… sometimes… this is touchy… it seems like when many women or maybe even men also want to present themselves as vulnerable or having overcome some hardship that they talk about some type of sexual… something that happened in their past when they were younger…
Nancy: Oh okay. Like an inappropriate… sex abuse or—
Frank: Yeah, like molestation…
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: Sex abuse, that sort of thing.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: It seems like that’s—
Nancy: Epidemic?
Frank: Oh man, I don’t know how to… it just… wow… it’s one of those things where I don’t know what happened in a person’s past…
Nancy: Sure.
Frank: But it seems like it’s… a get-out-of-jail free card or it’s a get-in-your-sympathies free card to say that you had some sexual experience that devastated you, that you were able to overcome and that it engenders you to the community more… Does anybody else… seen that? And what comes to mind is Roseanne Barr.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: Maybe 20, 30 years ago…
Jeff: Oprah 2.
Frank: Oprah 2, yes. I think they did it together. It was like they were on… Roseanne was on her show or something like that? I don’t know.
Jeff: In my opinion, what it does is it gets more credibility to that person WHEN they talk about those issues because they’re EMPATHIZING, not SYMPATHIZING. I’ve been through that. I know, I can relate. Same thing with drug abuse or death in a family… I know what it feels like. So it comes from a different perspective. Instead of speculating, I can understand what you feel—
Nancy: Right, right.
Jeff: I’ve felt it. And of course there are different degrees to that. So it just to me, that’s credence to their credibility when they talk about the issue. And especially with Oprah because she had and dealt with those issues on her show a lot and it was much more… personal than a doctor with comment—which in my opinion is ridiculous…
Kweku: What do you getting by get-out-of-jail free card?
Frank: It kind of like what Jeff said… it automatically… it takes the listener to a place of… sympathy. Almost empathy.
Nancy: It disarms the listener on some level you’re saying.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Nancy: Kind of like “Oh wow.”
Frank: Right, right.
Nancy: What’s my comeback on this?
Frank: Yeah, you… I feel bad for you.
Nancy: Sure.
Frank: Come here, let me give you a hug.
Nancy: Right.
Frank: It’s almost like a virtual hug and I wonder if people have begun to really say that and they didn’t have those type of experiences. Again, I don’t know—
Nancy: Wow.
Frank: I don’t know people’s history.
Nancy: Right, right.
Frank: But I just wonder if that is something, a dynamic that’s taking hold.
Nancy: Well I think that some of what’s happening is that what we’re having is this huge… what we’re having is that people are becoming more aware and so when you have a high profile personality come out and say these are the things that happened to me, it’s really to raise awareness. It’s to have women understand what they do and have to tolerate from men in general and the family—
Frank: But I hear men say this stuff too.
Nancy: Yeah, because what’s happening is obviously this stuff has been going on for eons and now people are putting it out there. This is what happened to me. Spotlight, talks about the whole Catholic priest thing and the Catholic priest themselves were molested, raped and so what Sid had a thing last week where he says “hurt people, hurt people, abandon people, abandon.” So it’s the same with sexual assault. So… I don’t know that I want to go as far as to say now I’m not discounting that people manipulate situations and circumstance and create stories that will give them credibility in the marketplace depending on what they’re trying get done. But that’s dicey. That’s very dicey.
Frank: It is definitely.
Nancy: And I think you have people understanding themselves as abused at subtler and subtler levels. Once upon a time, it had to be this egregious physical… assault or something but now it can be the way somebody looked at you, the way somebody talked to you… it’s an attack—you know… let me say this… one of the most profound things I think I’ve ever heard was that rape is a crime against the human spirit. That just went clunk and I was like, woah, which I can see is what would have it be so incredibly difficult to come back from. When our children are introduced to sex inappropriately or at all, it’s a… what do we call it? They come into not an age of innocence but essentially, there’s a level of innocence that goes away—
Frank: It’s gone.
Nancy: And you can’t get it back. And so, rape has that same kind of impact on the human spirit. There’s something that person takes from you that you cannot get back after it’s over whether you’re a man who’s been raped or a woman. And so, that’s what makes me say “Boy, for you to claim that something like that has happened for you and it hasn’t is… to me on the flipside, it’s as bad as the thing happening. You’re as bad as the perpetrator of the crime.
Frank: I agree with that.
Nancy: If you say that it’s happened and you know it hasn’t.
Frank: Yes.
Nancy: You’re just as bad. You might be worst.
Kweku: Yeah, there’s no way [unclear]…
Jeff: It’s the Brian William Syndrome.
Frank: Brian Williams?
Jeff: Just half truth, I was there, I wasn’t there. I might have happened [unclear] credibility to my story if I said I was there. Just change the subject.
Kweku: That was a few years ago, right?
Jeff: Yeah. Just say the subject line. He’s of course said he was in a helicopter that was shut down.
Kweku: Right.
Frank: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nancy: That’s right. Yeah.
Jeff: He was covering the story. He was in the helicopter behind it, whatever. Personally, I think he’s still had great perspective on the war and the battle and all of that. But he’s a trusted journalist and he lied.
Nancy: Exactly, exactly.
Jeff: It would be foolish of us to think that people don’t do that with other subject matter.
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: Whether it’s sexual abuse, metal abuse, I got my doctorate from Harvard. I went to [unclear] Community College. You know… all of that. It happens.
Frank: [Unclear] that’s…
Kweku: [Unclear]… Thanks Jeff.
Frank: Yeah, yeah. He brought that—
Jeff: Give me a microphone.
Frank: Do you ever hear… and this is… well, let me simply say it. I’ve never heard a person that’s a celebrity or that has the stage for a given period of time, I’ve never heard a person say “that didn’t happen to me. I didn’t had to deal with stuff like that.” I’ve never hear that and that—
Nancy: It just doesn’t come up.
Frank: Maybe.
Nancy: So it’s more like if it hasn’t happened to you, it doesn’t come up but if it has, it’s got to hit the table as that quintessential thing that you had to more or less rise above in order to get to where you want to go in your life. Maybe further in your life than you would’ve gone if it hadn’t happen, is that the whole point of mentioning it you wonder? Because certainly not everybody who’s been sexually assaulted gets famous. It’s definitely not a ticket to ride in that way.
Frank: Well, I was actually saying that a lot of people who ARE famous—
Nancy: Yes.
Frank: I’ve heard people who are famous say that they were sexually assaulted in some form or fashion.
Nancy: I got it, yeah.
Frank: And so I definitely don’t think people get famous because of some issue…
Nancy: Right, right.
Frank: I don’t think that—
Nancy: Or that it somehow is the elixir of success.
Frank: No, no…
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: Monica Lewinski.
Nancy: Was she assaulted?
Frank: But she wasn’t assaulted, right?
Jeff: No.
Frank: So she…
Jeff: That’s something to be famous about.
Frank: Right.
Nancy: Or something, yeah…
Kweku: I got one on a lighter note…
Frank: Oh hit it.
Nancy: Oh mercy.
Kweku: So you know I follow sports… Did you guys hear about the Lakers?
Frank: No.
Jeff: Oh yeah.
Kweku: So this rookie [unclear] and is a veteran like he’s young as 30, 31.
Jeff: Used to play with the Wizards.
Kweku: Yeah. So they were having a conversation. Both of them play a lot. And so the rookies—
Frank: Played a lot, they [unclear] with each other a lot?
Kweku: Yeah, you know, your teammates to play—
Frank: Not play on the court?
Kweku: No. Well [unclear] play a lot. But they joke a lot.
Nancy: Okay…
Kweku: The person that they joke a lot and you know, cracking a good joke and so forth… so I guess it went too far.
Nancy: Wow.
Kweku: They were having a one-on-one conversation about women. Nick Young is engaged to a very popular pop star, was she Iggy Azalea or something like that. So they were having this one-on-one conversation talking about women and so forth. The whole time, the rookie is recording the conversation. Long story-short, somehow the conversation got out to the media—
Frank: Recording the conversation? What kind of—?
Jeff: On his phone and then he posted it on Instagram.
Frank: But why?
Kweku: What’s wrong?
Nancy: As a practical joke he said.
Kweku: So but according to him, it wasn’t meant to get out and… now he’s kind of being ousted by his teammates, isolated, [unclear] last night at the game at the home game based on this conversation between two men and they talking about women over that one. So…
Frank: So what was said?
Kweku: Something to the fact of sleeping with other women. I mean, I don’t know the—
Jeff: [Unclear] said that he hit a 19 year old last year.
Kweku: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: And then the other rookie—oh he’s a rookie by the way—
Nancy: Wow. And he—
Kweku: [Unclear] a draft… He’s supposed to be the next superstar…
Jeff: His MO is that he’s very immature… and while he was asking the question, he had a cellphone that recorded the whole thing. So Nick Young admits to—not adultery because he’s not married—but he’s engaged in a very serious public relationship. Iggy Azalea is a public star and Nick Young’s an NBA star player.
Kweku: Two millionaires, yup.
Jeff: And [unclear] gets out.
Nancy: Wow.
Jeff: So D’Angelo’s done in my book. Who’s going to want to pass him the ball?
Kweku: And it’s almost like they broke… like they broke the code…
Nancy / Frank: Man law.
Nancy: That’s right.
Kweku: Athlete code, [unclear] code… like certain conversations we have we’re not supposed to get out.
Frank: Right. I mean that’s with any two people. I mean, you like to think you’re talking to a person you’re talking to only and that you have some type of rapport with each other. Imagine…
Kweku: So the question is, if the information is factual, it’s correct. As far as the way he’s being treated now is far as isolating and ousted.
[Cross talking]
Hasanna: He crossed the line.
Frank: He crossed the line.
Nancy: Yeah, I’ll be surprised if they renew his contract.
Kweku: So from the ladies that’s interesting. I want to hear your perspective as far as… they crossed the line.
Hasanna: Oh definitely, they crossed the line. Why would you be recording a conversation—I don’t understand as a grown man but—
Kweku: Right.
Hasanna: How do they get off your phone? It wasn’t meant to be shared…
Kweku: He said it didn’t…
Frank: That’s a double whammy.
Kweku: Absolutely.
Frank: Recorded it in the first place and then it ended up where you know… in the cloud or whatever. That—
Nancy: Unintentional. That’s so highly unlikely.
Kweku: Some say the conversation wasn’t so casual and it was… this guy was married with kids and they had similar conversation and the information got out. That would’ve been still…
Nancy: Still… It’s still… Now, that doesn’t suggest in any way that I think it’s okay that the man with the wife and children has had an illicit affair. It’s still a breach of confidence between two people. If I’m talking with you, you’re recording the conversation for something…
Kweku / Frank: Right.
Nancy: Something.
Frank: And which comes first? The rapport or the confidence that two people ”should have” when discussing something with one another, not thinking it is going to be repeated, recorded or the facts that they’re talking about. Which is most… important?
Hasanna: Even if the facts are true, if I’m having a private conversation with somebody, I am trusting that someone is not recording or that that information is going to get out—even if it’s true. Now if it’s true, I’m going to have to deal with the consequences if it does get out but that’s just a line that you don’t cross. Like I feel like that was a major violation and he should be boo-ed at the games because of that.
Nancy: But it does speak volumes for where we find ourselves also. I mean, I can tell you right now if I am dialoguing with someone in writing whether it’s via text or email, when I get to the point I conversation where I’m saying, if I go on with this, it might not go my way or if I want to have a deeper cut at that conversation, I get on the phone and if I don’t get on the phone, I get in your face. There’s a point—not in your face in a combative way—
Frank: Right, right.
Nancy / Frank: Face-to-face.
Nancy: And for me, there’s a cut-off because number one, I know that things can deteriorate in texting and email very quickly. Number two, I’m saying I don’t want to go on record as having said this. I want to have an off-the-record conversation with this person, I want to be able to speak openly and freely and I can’t do that unless I’m talking directly with them in a way, I’m thinking where the conversation’s not recorded.
Kweku: Yeah.
Nancy: Because text and email and stuff like that is recorded.
Hasanna: And you have to be careful nowadays too.
Nancy: You do.
Hasanna: You never know who’s videoing or who’s recording. You really have to be mindful about the things that you say and do.
Jeff: And even in Pro Basketball where Shaq’s [unclear] wife and there was a guy in the Cavaliers who slept with Lebron’s mother…
Nancy: Yes…
Jeff: And… tends to be—even the Kobe scandal tends to be forgiving. This one I don’t see…
Frank / Nancy: Yeah.
Jeff: You know, winding up good for this rookie.
Nancy: No, we don’t either.
Frank: Right.
Jeff: Nobody’s going to pass him the ball, nobody’s going to talk to him. If he gets to be traded, nobody’s going to want him on the team.
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: Regardless how good is—
Nancy: His skills are.
Kweku: Yeah. I was reading an article. He’s apologizing, he’s like—
Nancy: Of course he is… because he’s looking at the end of his career coming [unclear] that he thought he might.
Frank: His agent is talking to him.
Kweku: I mean…
Frank: Heavy.
Kweku: I mean the only person that has spoken to him on the team is like Kobe.
Nancy: Same man. It’s a long way home…
Frank: Let’s put a bow on this.
Nancy: Yes.
Frank: Kweku, you say what? Eff him or hug him?
Kweku: He’s 19, 20 years old. He made a mistake, he should be… ridiculed or [unclear]… at the same time, in that arena you got to be careful who you’re talking to. What you do is just the way I is. If you did that to me, we’ll have a problem.
Frank: Damn right.
Nancy: Right, right.
Frank: Okay. So I can’t get you to select one of my choices?
Kweku: I don’t I really care about the guys’ enough to…
Frank: I eman, come on…
Nancy: Are you in or are you out?
Kweku: [unclear] pose a question.
Frank: Eff him or hug him?
Kweku: Eff.
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: Wow, yes, yes.
Frank: What you got Nancy?
Nancy: I say…
Kweku: Hug him later…
Nancy: Hug him later, yes. I think that… eff him or hug him to me is a little extreme.
Frank: Yeah?
Nancy: I feel that… you messed me up with eff him or hug him. I went like someplace. Can I [unclear] to Hasanna and come back?
Frank: Yeah, go.
Hasanna: He definitely needs a hug. He needs to be mentored, he needs a slap on the hand but at the end of the day, hug him, love him and you got to learn from that one… even if that means you lost your career. I’m gonna hug you now. you messed up. That’s what—
Frank: Well eff him is lose your career.
Nancy: I went to… you might want to start considering life after basketball.
Kweku: Not his career, nah…
Frank: He should not lose his career.
Kweku: He’s a basketball player.
Hasanna: He made a mistake.
Nancy: Well, yeah… and he’s young. And the unfortunate reality is you wont know that he’s learned his lesson until he doesn’t again…
Kweku: The public has forgave him for a whole lot worse than that.
Nancy: This is true.
Frank: Alright, so I’m not clear. I know what your answer was Kweku. Atleast I did until you back tracked and said something else. Nancy you say “hug him”?
Nancy: Only after I listen to Hasanna. She is a mother.
Frank: Alright.
Nancy: So maybe she has a more informed and mature point of view.
Hasanna: Oh my gosh.
Nancy: But I feel like he should be ousted.
Frank: Yeah, I’m with you. Eff him.
Nancy: I need to be done. But then when you talk about what it is his career and [unclear] and people have done worse things, I’m like yes they have—
Kweku: Yeah, absolutely.
Nancy: But he has a reputation already for this—
Kweku: That’s fine with me to play basketball.
Nancy: An old [unclear] he’s dies hard even in children. They become adults, carrying that bag.
Hasanna: Hug him. He needs a hug.
Nancy: Listen, he could stay in the league but he would never play for me.
Frank: Well, so you’re the owner or the coach, you’re saying…
Nancy: Or the coach, he would never play for me—
Jeff: Translation is “eff him.”
Frank: Yeah, that’s what I hear you saying.
Jeff: There are 3 routes to hug him.
Nancy: Okay.
Jeff: If Iggy Azalea accepts Nick’s apology—
Nancy: Okay.
Jeff: And if Nick accepts this dude’s apology—
Nancy: Okay.
Jeff: Then you hug him. It was a mistake, I understand. He was young. Ban cellphones in the locker room, whatever. Otherwise, I wouldn’t pass him the ball.
Nancy: Right.
[Cross talking]
Nancy: On any level, yeah.
Jeff: If he wouldn’t get it back.
Nancy: Wouldn’t pass him the ball or the contract. Exactly.
Frank: Do I hear Jeff saying “eff him”?
Jeff: Yeah. Again, if Nick—I mean that a personal thing. If Nick can take care of his house and accept an apology, then maybe because people do make mistakes.
Nancy: Sure.
Jeff: But that’s a mistake that shouldn’t happen in the first place.
Frank: Hear, hear. You are listening to Frank Relationships and we’ve been talking with each other. Yup, we took the day to chop it up with the team and our co-host for the day, Hasanna.
Along today’s journey, we’ve discussed Maya Angelou, sex working, paying a partner to not do what we don’t want them to do and how much attire may influence the response we get in the community from individuals who find us or don’t find us attractive or something of that nature. I hope you’ve had as much fun as I’ve had getting to know your Frank Relationships Team along with special guest, Hasanna.
As always, it’s my wish for you to walk away from this conversation with a heaping helping of useful information that I hope you create a relation that’s as loving and accepting as possible.
Let us know what you think of today’s show at facebook.com/relationshipflove, on Twitter at @mrfranklove or at franklove.com. If you’re listening via Blog Talk Radio, make sure you like us there and if via iTunes, make sure you subscribe so that you can receive each week’s show.
This is Frank love.
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