It’s a hot one on the airwaves today. We’re talking about “All My Babies’ Mamas.” The reality tv show that was set to highlight a rapper, his 11 children, and their 10 mothers. But it never aired. Stay tuned for some Frank talk on Frank Relationships.
FRANK RELATIONSHIPS: ALL MY BABIES MAMAS
Guests: Danielle Young
Date: February 3, 2013
Frank: It’s a hot one on the airwaves today. We’re talking about “All My Babies Mamas.” The reality TV show that was set to highlight a rapper, his 11 children and their 10 mothers. But it never aired. Stay tuned for some frank talk on Frank Relationships.
Welcome to Frank Relationships where we provide a candid, fresh and frank look into relationships with goals of acceptance, respect and flexibility. I’m Frank Love and you can find me, my blog and my various social media incarnations at franklove.com.
Once again, I’m joined by my co-host, Dr. Gayle. She’s the resident psychology expert extraordinaire and she’s riding shot gun. Though, I got to tell you, she might be pointing it at me today. What’s up, Dr. Gayle?
Dr. Gayle: What’s up, Frank?
Frank: There are endless conversations being had throughout our varying communities about the breakdown of the family, the scourge of the broken household, the horror of promiscuity and a litany of other topics that we may discuss or come close to discussing today.
Marriage rates are down, people are waiting for all periods of time to get married and children are being born out of wedlock to parents that don’t mind doing so. Clearly this is the case with wrapper and attempted reality TV show star Shawty Lo and the numerous women that he’s chosen as co-parents. You see, they were set to star in a reality TV show called, “All My Babies Mamas” on the Oxygen Network. Check it out
Female: “My name is E’creia. They say I’m the first lady. I’m the baby’s mama with the most power, because I control Shawty’s finances. ‘Everybody good? Anybody need anything else?'”
“Then, we have Angela, aka Chocolate and she’s the fighter baby mama. Amanda, she’s the jealous baby mama. ‘Jill, whatever, that’s your daddy, but I’m your mama and you better listen.’ Now Shawan, she’s the wanna be bougee baby mama. ‘I just don’t like the term baby mama, because I think it’s degrading.’ Tamara, she cool. She’s a no-drama baby mama. *(inaudible) 03:08, she’s a ringer, but she a shady baby mama. ‘Like when I do come around, it’s like *(inaudible) 03:13 certain baby mama. I’m not going to say the name.’ Then we have Liana (aka Pebbles). She’s a baby mama from Hell. ‘*(inaudible) 03:23, you reap what you sow. So I mean, you know.’ ‘Okay.’ ‘*(inaudible) 03:28 all these baby mamas, though. How does a guy like me end up with 10 baby mamas and having kids that’s had them?'”
Frank: No matter how interesting or appalling you found that clip, the chances are you’ll never see one episode of the show. It was cancelled before airing, due to the activism of financial educator Sabrina Lamb. She watched the trailer and decided, “Hell no, this show will not go on.” She formed a “No-Oxygen Coalition” and initiated a petition to stop the show from airing, because she believed it portrayed black people in a negative light and the petition worked.
To get the party started, I’m going to play a segment from a shy young woman that had plenty to say about the show.
Female Speaker: When I first saw this I couldn’t do nothing; it was hard for me to even watch the whole 13 minutes. I couldn’t do nothing, but just shake my head in disgust. It just shows how low we’ve come as black folks. We will put anything–well, we will allow the media to put anything out there. You know, I think for one, for him to have 11 kids by 10 different women, is a disgrace. What’s wrong with having all your kids by the same person? What’s wrong with being in a committed relationship? What’s wrong with not jumping from woman to woman to woman? And that just says a lot about the women. You see that he has eight other babies mamas and then you willfully line up to be baby mama number nine and 10.
And then, one of the bitches has the nerve to be a boujee baby mama. How are you boujee when you’re not even the first? You came into a situation knowing that he had all these other women that he had children with and then you decided to get pregnant? You know, this show says a lot about how far we’ve fallen and, I, for one, I’m not going to support this show. I’m not watching this show. I have no interest in watching this show.
Frank: My guest today agrees with the young lady in that segment and Sabrina Lamb. And she’s here to volley with me for the next hour. With her and Dr. Gayle tag-teaming together, I don’t think I stand a chance. But hey, I brought band aides and Neosporin.
Dr. Gayle: Especially not if you agree with Shawty Lo.
Frank: Well, I’ll be alright, eventually. Today’s guest is none other than the Associate Editor of “Hello Beautiful;” a super bad website that has a following of over two million people and provides celebrity gossip, relationship advice and beauty tips for black women.
She recently interviewed Sabrina Lamb, about Shawty Lo’s show and found out that there was a jerk on the radio by the name of Frank Love willing to defend Mr. Low. And there was no way she was going to miss out on the opportunity to tear yours truly a new one. So, if you’re ready to witness that carnage and want to find out what a leading mind has to say about the issue at hand, then please welcome to Frank Relationships, Ms. Danielle Young.
Danielle: Good morning. See how you gave me a bad rap already. I mean, I’m not going to rip you new one; hopefully you’re not.
Frank: I don’t mind.
Dr. Gayle: You haven’t heard what he has to say yet, Ms. Young, okay?
Danielle: Right, right. Well, so far a clean slate, but you’re right.
Frank: Okay, what about Shawty Lo’s show grabbed your attention?
Danielle: The plethora of babies’ mamas, first of all. It’s very ridiculous.
Frank: How many is okay?
Danielle: I mean, it’s not exactly about the number. I can’t say, “Oh, you have five,” so that an acceptable amount of babies’ mamas. Multiple is a problem-
Danielle: That, that-
Frank: I’ve got two.
Danielle: Well, that’s a problem.
Dr. Gayle: You have two, but at the same time Frank, you were married to them. It wasn’t like-
Danielle: Well, that’s a little bit, yeah. That’s a difference.
Dr. Gayle: There is a difference. And you can’t but help take into account the ignorance that clip just had within it. The verbiage that they used and you know. “This is the bougee baby mama and I’m the-” just giving each other’s names and that’s just ignorance.
Frank: Okay, well, can we back up to me? I want to talk about me. Is that okay?
Dr. Gayle: Okay, go ahead.
Frank: Okay, I’ve got two–
Dr. Gayle: It is your show.
Frank: I’ve got two, “baby mamas.” Yes they–the first was a wife and the second is a wife.
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Frank: So, talk to me about the problems there and–and–
Danielle: Well, the problem is actually the term. What is “baby mamas?” I understand it describes the situation, but women that bare your child deserve the term “mother.”
Dr. Gayle: Frank, are you okay with being called “baby daddy?”
Dr. Gayle: Even though you were married are married to the children– the mothers?
Frank: I don’t have a problem with it.
Danielle: It’s not a derogatory term in your mind?
Frank: No, I am–
Danielle: Aren’t you still like a father?
Frank: I certainly am a father. Now, but we’re not talking about the children’s proximity to me, we’re talking about the woman’s proximity to me. So yeah, I can be a father and a baby daddy. What’s the problem there?
Danielle: I mean, it’s not–I don’t think. The biggest problem for me is the glorification of it–
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Danielle: And maybe I am going to change my mind a little bit and say the number does matter. The 10 does bother me a little bit more than the two. You see, it’s becoming relative, because your situation isn’t broadcast on television and it’s not a ridiculous number and you’ve had marriages. Shawty Lo’s had a hopscotch of women and it’s apparent that this is just a bad situation.
Frank: What makes it–
Danielle: It’s an ignorant situation.
Frank: What makes the show and the premise around it glorification instead of just a capture of what’s going on?
Danielle: A capture of what’s going on is this is going to more about–it would be more about the kids. It would be “All My Babies” or something like that. Like to make into this ghetto–“She’s the boogee one. She the mean one.” It’s, sad.
Dr. Gayle: And not to mention, when you are raising children, how in the world is he going to–and how are the mothers going to foster people or children that are, I guess, complete as individuals? They have the father and the mother. They’re rearing them or raising them full-time.
Frank: I don’t see the correlation, but I don’t want us to move too quickly through varying issues. Danielle, you said it would be more about the babies. Now, one of the things that we did not run that was part of the trailer was he does introduce the children, so its–
Danielle: Wow. Does he get a round of applause for introducing his children?
Danielle: I mean we are given our reality shows for the basic things that you’re suppose to do. You have children, they are yours, take care of them, you don’t deserve a show. That shouldn’t be means for you to take care of them.
Dr. Gayle: That’s what you’re supposed to do.
Danielle: My grandmother had 13 children. She didn’t have a reality show.
Frank: So, are we talking about whether it should have been more about the babies or are we talking about he don’t deserve a reality show, because I certainly can get the part about not deserving a reality show. But you said that if it was not glorification, it wouldn’t be all about the women and it would’ve been, I guess partly–
Danielle: Yeah, I mean–
Frank: About the babies.
Danielle: It’s was formula. Reality TV shows have a formula.
Dr. Gayle: Uh-huh.
Danielle: *(inaudible) 11:38
Frank: It was about–
Dr. Gayle: Drama, hood, ignorance.
Danielle: Why do we care about someone who’s taking care their many kids and having a relationship with them as a father?
Frank: Well, we might not have cared.
Danielle: We would rather see babies’ mamas fight over school supplies and who’s going to get this and the 19 year old child girlfriend. That’s what we’d rather see.
Frank: We might–
Danielle: That’s what the producers thought. “Hey, this looks like a great idea through the kids. We’ll throw with them in there. We’ll make them name them and that’ll be funny.” Come on.
Dr. Gayle: And not to mention they’re all black. You know what I mean? Come on.
Frank: Okay, we are all over the lot. I got to ask everybody to just stick with me on this one. You said, it would not be glorification if it were more about the children. I want to go back and I want to get really clear about the glorification verses the capture of just simply as what is going on. Now he did talk about the children. I want to be clear. What would be necessary for it to be just simply a capture verses glorification?
Dr. Gayle: Well, what did he say–
Danielle: A capture–sorry, Dr. Gayle, go ahead.
Dr. Gayle: No, go ahead.
Danielle: I mean a capture is essentially a photograph of someone’s life; reality.
Danielle: They are not living together in that great big old house doing all that they’re doing on that show. That is not their reality.
Frank: How do you know that?
Danielle: The reality is they’re probably scattered in different places, struggling to pay their bills and Shawty Lo is popping in and out of there. The show that they’re trying to show is not a reality. It’s an ignorant song and dance. *(inaudible) 13:29
Frank: Well, I don’t know that they were trying to show us that they all live together all the time. In the trailer, I–
Danielle: I don’t think they do what they do, what they were showing. I don’t even think that’s a reality.
Danielle: Them altogether and doing all that, that’s not real.
Frank: Well, you’re making my point, which is you don’t know and neither do I and the only way we would know is if we would’ve watched the show. So, to say that it is fake or anything of that nature, I mean, you could say the same thing about “Basketball Wives.” You could say the same about “Real Housewives of Atlanta.” I seriously doubt all of these women would have traveled to where ever they went to on an island recently on the show together without it being a reality TV show. Who cares, though? So, and on top of that, you get a chance to watch it and make the assessment yourself. You don’t have activists telling you, you shouldn’t watch it, because “These women are genuine. They’re not real friends. They is not representative of what real relationships amongst black women are.” So, why hit us over the head activism to prevent them from seeing this show, because it might be fake, but at the same time it might be real? Help me out.
Danielle: I mean, I don’t like it. I just don’t like it. These other shows they do what they do. That is out of our control at this point. Nobody can honestly petition to shut down “Real Housewives of Atlanta,” but it’s a tough pill that all of us have to swallow. Reality shows–its all wrong. What they show is just this thing that kids want to emulate now. People want to do ridiculous things to be viral, to be mentioned in all these little online and on TV and Kim Kardashian. It’s a lot, but I can’t control everything, so it’s a kind of an unfair question to be like, “Why activism for this?” Because we could, because there was someone strong enough and willing enough to step up and say, “Hey, please don’t for this out there for kids to want to look up to and be like, ‘Hey that looks fun, maybe I’ll get that many babies mamas.'” It’s a possibility. Look our TV putting on “Sixteen and Pregnant.” You get pregnant, you get a show. People allowing their children to reach for these stupid, ignorant goals and it’s just, it’s time somebody said something
Frank: So you don’t–
Danielle: Maybe that it.
Frank: So, you don’t think that people who watch 16–whatever the show you just mentioned.
Dr. Gayle: “Sixteen and Pregnant.”
Frank: I’ve heard of it. You don’t think that people watching that, that look and say, “Whoa, I don’t want any parts of that,” meaning that life.
Danielle: Of course.
Frank: Not as a 16 year old parent? And if you do think that, then it’s not just simply setting a stage for people to want to be that way, it’s clearly setting the stage for people who see it and don’t want to live that life. And it may very well prevent teen pregnancy.
Dr. Gayle: Well, at the end of the day–
Danielle: Well, yeah.
Dr. Gayle: Day people model behaviors that they see, right? And if the media’s saturated with this type of behavior and it’s okay, and it’s portrayed to be okay and you’re glorified and people glorify it, then at the end of the day, kids are going to say, “Well, wow, maybe I could do this and maybe I could do that. Maybe I can be just as ignorant as they are and get a show. Or I can be popular and get a show.” Speaking of the “Real Housewives,” NeNe Lakes was the most ignorant person in the first two seasons and now she’s in Hollywood and has her own show on the / “New Normal.”
Danielle: / Exactly. Exactly.
Dr. Gayle: And so, it’s like, “If I’m ignorant, forget about going to school, forget about my four or five degrees and I’m over here hustling and bustling trying to pay Sally Mae back, but if I can get on TV and act ignorant, I can go to Hollywood and I can you know, be a movie star and I can make more money and I can do this and do that.” So that’s where the ignorance is and that’s where the difficulty in these shows lies and the issues that I personally have with them. I mean yes, they’re entertainment and I admit, I watch “The Real Housewives,” but I am educated enough that I’m not going to get on TV and portray myself like that.
Frank: Oh, whoa, okay, so you’re smart enough to discern whether what’s being fed to you appropriate to feed to you or appropriate to live, but other people are not that smart?
Dr. Gayle: I’m not saying other people–
Danielle: Oh, wow.
Dr. Gayle: But I’m not. I mean, I am yes, because I choose not to portray myself that way.
Frank: So, if a person’s saw it and chose to portray themselves in the way NeNe did to get a job in Hollywood and got it, she would be what?
Dr. Gayle: To me that’s ignorant.
Frank: That’s ignorant, even though–
Dr. Gayle: To act out–
Frank: That person may very well be meeting their needs and goals.
Dr. Gayle: To act out and to be ignorant and to do whatever she had to do initially in order to get where she wanted, it’s like sleeping your way to the top.
Frank: And you see a problem with sleeping your way to the top?
Dr. Gayle: I absolutely do, yes.
Frank: There are people who don’t–
Dr. Gayle: People do it, but you asked me if I see a problem with it. Yes, I do, because I went to school, I worked hard; I earned my degrees and my education. So yes, I see a problem with it.
Frank: That sounds like hating to me. So you have people–
Danielle: Oh, Lord.
Dr. Gayle: That is not hating, Frank. Are you serious? Come on.
Danielle: Why does the word hating have to be introduced when the person has a personal opinion on something? Just because Dr. Gayle, what she achieved on her own merit and she doesn’t believe that when people achieve it on being a menstrual show, that it’s being successful, that’s her opinion.
I say get it however you get it, but if you’re going to sell your soul at the end of the day and dance for the people, then whatever, that’s just going to be your role, I’m not going to necessarily respect you any less, but there’s always going to be something nagging me in the back of my mind, “This person is willing to be ignorant and to act as a role model and to show kids, ‘Hey, all you got to do is be an idiot on TV and sell your soul and you’ll get the same success.'”
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Frank: That the case as long as being an idiot on TV sells. At some point it will come a time where it’s no longer interesting to the audience. So and it goes to–
Dr. Gayle: Right and since and since–
Frank: It goes to what Dr. Gayle was saying. She said she was able to rise to the top, shall we say. Based on her own merits, she did the “right thing;” went to school, dot, dot, dot. And this other person slept their way to the top. Well, they are both ways to get to the top. There are many women here, who are willing to, in their own way do what they have to do on their own merits. Sometimes it’s what’s between the legs, admittedly, to get to the top and they get their and meet–so they achieve what they want to achieve in the way they want to achieve it.
I’m saying it gets to hating when you’re looking at the way someone else has done whatever it is they’ve done–meaning the way someone else has achieved their goals– you compare it to yours and you say it’s a problem, because they didn’t go the route you went.
Dr. Gayle: Well, no it’s not–
Danielle: No, I mean–
Dr. Gayle: It’s not hate. That’s not hate.
Danielle: It’s not hate.
Frank: What is it?
Danielle: It a preference and people are allowed to have that. To not think–I personally said, “Get it however you get it,” that is not even not my business–
Frank: I did hear you say that.
Danielle: But I–
Dr. Gayle: Right, I heard you say that, too.
Danielle: And like many other young women who chose the route Dr. Gayle and myself have chosen, we probably have had opportunities–I know I’ve had opportunities to get my success in the way that they’ve gotten theirs. And I have chosen not to. That’s my personal journey.
I don’t have anything to do with anyone else who chooses the other way around. Yeah sometimes, I’m going to be real. You’ll look at their success and be like, “Man you know what?” I’m a journalist. I went to school for it. I got the loans for it and when Snookie sells a New York Times best seller, hell yeah, I get a little mad at that. But whatever, I didn’t choose to go and do “Jersey Shore” and get drunk and put my face in a toilet and do crazy stuff like that on TV.
Danielle: I’m sorry.
Frank: I’m completely with you and I don’t have a problem with–and I’m not even commenting on having an opinion. I’m commenting on what’s behind that opinion. So, did you actually sign the petition that Ms. Lamb circulated?
Danielle: By the time I got to it, it was already at 35,000 and I couldn’t sign so I just signed every other petition that popped up–
Danielle: In the same name, of shut down Shawty Lo. So, I could feel like my voice was heard as well.
Frank: Talk to me about non-traditional relationships, whether you’re okay with them and if you like, you can tell us about your relationship–if you like.
Danielle: Non-traditional relationships–I mean, its 2013. There’s a time when you just have to move with the way the times are. And I believe in them. I grew up in them. My grandmother–by default, my grandfather passed away early. She was the mother–or is the mother–my grandmother’s still alive, of 13 children. So I’ve seen motherhood for a very long time. And unfortunately, it was something that perpetuated through my family it was kind of the norm. So I grew up–I don’t really have a relationship with my father. I mean, we speak on and off, but it wasn’t like he grew up in my home, so that is already something that’s kind of in me as a person and has affected the way I handle my own relationships. So, I have this untraditional way of dating, I guess you can say. So, I’m just like–I believe in them. Those are not a problem me. I don’t believe in peek into this, into this, into that. So, it’s-yeah.
Frank: Can you give me a little bit of what’s going on in terms of your untraditional way of dating?
Danielle: Well, as a busy young woman living in New York City, I’m working a lot and as a journalist sometimes your day is not over at 6:00 P.M. when everybody’s packing up, ready to go home. So, there’s a lot of late nights, there’s a lot of industry “parties” that you have to go and meet and network and blah, blah, blah. So, it doesn’t really leave a lot of time for you to develop and maintain intimate relationships with people. And, you know, I struggle to even double my friendships, people that I’ve had around me for years and it’s rough, so I just the make the best of a situation. I have like little casual flings here and there. And then, there’s always like one that I’m attempting to spend time with, but usually they lose a lot of patience.
Danielle: The amount of time I’m willing and able to give them. So, I’m kind of like a serial dater–
Danielle: I guess you can say.
Frank: Well, I certainly understand. I am on your side in terms you do what you got to do to make it work. It’s ironic that you have a, what some would consider, an untraditional dating lifestyle and at the same time don’t have an appreciation for this man and these women and their untraditional situation.
Danielle: Because I’m not pushing out 10 different babies, so that’s where that divide comes from.
Frank: A few minutes–
Danielle: Casual dating doesn’t necessarily mean casual sex, and it definitely doesn’t mean casual pregnancies, so–
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Danielle: I’m not inserting myself into any type of baby mama situation.
Frank: Well, so that’s your point. That’s your–your–
Dr. Gayle: Defense.
Frank: Well, your interest point. It’s the children that really presses your button, is that what I’m hearing?
Danielle: Yeah. Yeah.
Frank: And a few minutes ago, you said that you think that there is a number that is a problem. You want to go back to that? What is that number that’s a problem? Men verses babies or women verses babies and the appropriate ratio?
Danielle: I don’t know what the number is. I just know there’s a different feeling from two babies’ mamas and to 10 to 12. I mean, like I said, my grandmother has 13 and she was never a babies’ mama.
Danielle: So, it’s the times, it’s allowance of–like the girl said on the video that you played earlier. You’re allowing yourself to be baby mama number 10–
Frank: What’s the problem?
Danielle: That’s problematic.
Danielle: Because of this man bouncing around with all these children. He’s by no means taking real responsibility–
Danielle: In their lives.
Frank: Where do we get that from?
Dr. Gayle: Can you really take a real responsibility in–
Danielle: He couldn’t even hardly name them. That’s, I mean–
Frank: That’s not true.
Frank: I listened to the clip you’re referring to and he stumbled on one of his children’s name and out of 11 kids–hey when I’m so fortunate as to have 11 children, I might stumble too and I don’t have a problem with that. So how does–
Danielle: I don’t have a problem–
Frank: Where do we get to the point where we believe him to be an unfit or irresponsible father? I didn’t see that in the clip and there’s nothing that in the clip that I’m hearing that suggests that.
Danielle: Any father of that many children that’s willing to date a 19 year old in front of them. I just–come on.
Frank: I’m listening.
Danielle: No regard.
Frank: No, what does that mean? “No regard- ”
Danielle: No, regards for his kids. Come on. How old is his oldest kid?
Frank: I think around the same age.
Danielle: As old as that girl?
Frank: Yep. Come on give me some substance. There are men who date women that are younger than them all the time, who are younger, the same age as their oldest child all the time. If they only had one child, is it okay? Is it because they have 10 children and the oldest one is the same age as his girlfriend? Is that when it becomes a problem? And is–
Danielle: It’s just a problem for me, because Shawty Lo just feels irresponsible and I know that is an unfair judgment, but that’s what it’s going to be if we’re talking about him. I don’t know him. He’s not here to defend himself, so it’s going to be an unfair judgment on my part.
Frank: It doesn’t–
Danielle: I feel that he is irresponsible and I don’t think he needs a show or we need to see that on TV. But no, it’s true.
Frank: I got to give you a high five for just simply going there. I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to just say, “Hey this is what I–This is how I’m concluding.” That being said, I’m concluding that I don’t know. I don’t know what kind of father he is. It’s clear to me that he has some sort of relationship with his children. They did make that clear on–
Danielle: I just wish they would’ve chosen to-the trailer was how long? It was–
Frank: Thirteen minutes or something like that.
Danielle: Long enough. It was long enough for us to see a Huxtable moment at the table with his 10 children, talking to them about life, giving them advice, encouraging them or something. It was long enough to show me that.
What do you show me? You show me the fact that you want to nickname all of your 10 babies mamas. You want to show them how ignorant–one of them called herself angry and outgoing. “Oh, I’m angry and this-” Come on. That’s what you show us. That is the problem I have with it. It could be about him being a great father all day. Show me that it’s going to be that.
Frank: Well, you said that he wanted to nickname the babies mamas. There was nothing in the trailer that suggested he gave them those nicknames. They could’ve given–
Frank: Them those nicknames. They could of given each other those nicknames.
Danielle: Maybe he didn’t do that–
Danielle: But there is some things in that trailer that suggests that they didn’t want to show us the fatherhood section of the story.
Danielle: You wanted to show it as a spectacle. “Ha ha ha. Look at all of us standing out here on the yard.”
Frank: That doesn’t look like a spectacle to me.
Danielle: *(inaudible) 31:27
Dr. Gayle: That most definitely looks like a spectacle.
Frank: So, children and their mother–
Danielle: Thank you.
Frank: And their father standing out–
Danielle: I’d rather see him sitting–like I said–sitting down encouraging his kids. The same way they showed T.I. Whatever it is. If people don’t want to believe that T.I. that type of father, I don’t care what it is at least that what he chooses–
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Danielle: To show.
Dr. Gayle: And he has a lot of kids too and he takes care of them. On the show, he portrays himself as a great father figure, so why couldn’t Shawty Lo do the same thing?
Frank: We didn’t see the show. How do you know know that he wasn’t–
Dr. Gayle: That wasn’t portrayed in the clip. He had 13 minutes to portray that in the clip–
Danielle: That was a long trailer. I have never seen trailers be 15 minutes long.
Dr. Gayle: On a commercial of T.I. and Tiny’s reality show. On a commercial, you see a better portrayal of a father figure than you did on that 13 minute clip of Shawty Lo and all his babies mamas and their nicknames
Frank: So we’re, we’re fully judging the show to the capacity of–
Dr. Gayle: That’s what we all have to go by.
Danielle: That’s what we have to look at it about. Like that’s all we have.
Frank: To the–
Dr. Gayle: So yes, that’s what we’re going to judge, because, that’s all we have to go by.
Frank: To the point of not even being willing to watch an episode of the show. No, we don’t ever–I don’t care what show you’re watching, you don’t ever have to completely discount this show and say that whatever the clip is, is all that there’s going to be.
Dr. Gayle: Yes you do. That’s just life in general, that’s first impressions, that’s when you initially meet someone–
Danielle: That’s *(inaudible) 32:57
Dr. Gayle: That’s what you go by.
Danielle: Isn’t that how you choose to watch what you watch? You watch the trailer, you see a preview. You’re like, “That doesn’t look good.” It’s the same that we’re doing.
Frank: Exactly, exactly. You get a chance to say that doesn’t look good, but you don’t try to cancel the show before it comes on. That’s my over arching point. The show could have come on and the audience gets a chance to see it and determine whether they want to watch it or not. Let the numbers do what they. What was the problem with doing that? Okay, what are drawbacks of having shows like this on the air? So, you have, not just a show of this nature but you have “Big Love.” There’s another show, that–what is the other polygamy show?
Danielle: I think that’s something like “Sister Wives.”
Frank: Sister Wives, yes, where, where you have men with plural relationships. What is the problem there? I didn’t see Lamb doing a petition there. I haven’t heard you mention those shows, but there’s similarities.
Dr. Gayle: Well, the difference in those shows is that they aren’t being portrayed as a hood, ghetto, you know outlandish. My name is and I’m the hood baby mama and I run this and I run that. No, like the father in the “Sister Wives” or whatever it’s called–
Dr. Gayle: They are a family unit. They work together, they help each other out.
Dr. Gayle: He spends quality time with each of the kids, not that I agree with that lifestyle, but it’s portrayed as “We’re sitting down. We’re spending family time together. We’re bonding. We’re–”
Danielle: / And no one out there is called the baby’s mama.
Dr. Gayle: / He’s actually being a father figure. Right. None of them are called a baby mama. And in my opinion, because, Frank, this is my opinion, baby mama is a derogatory term. So is baby daddy. It goes back and forth.
Danielle: It is.
Frank: Now this–
Danielle: It is. And people do place values on those terms. I’ve seen this discussions on people’s Facebook pages, even before this Shawty Lo show ever existed about the sting of the word “baby’s mama” and how friends of mine who have the child of someone that they have given birth to–they don’t want to be called that.
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Danielle: They feel it’s derogatory, so it’s not–
Dr. Gayle: And I’ve even–I’m sorry, go ahead.
Danielle: No, you go ahead.
Dr. Gayle: I’ve even heard guys say recently, “I’m not going to call her my baby mama, because she’s more than a baby mama. She’s my son or my daughter’s mother, because even they realize that’s a derogatory term.
Frank: Well, is he going to call her?
Dr. Gayle: Really Frank?
Frank: You can just answer the question?
Danielle: See that’s the thing, people have gotten lazy. I mean, not to get philosophical or whatever, but English is a lazy language. I’ve heard it from so many people outside of this country and it just goes to show you it, it is. We want to save time; nobody wants to say, “The mother of my child, my child’s mother-”
Frank: And we’re taking it out on Shawty Lo?
Danielle: Baby mama. It’s lazy.
Frank: We’re going to take it out on Shawty Lo?
Dr. Gayle: Well, we’re not taking it out on a Shawty Lo. It’s what Shawty Lo gave us; like that’s what they portrayed. They allowed us to come into their lives and all we can do is judge. Just like on “Basketball Wives,” how they were being hood rich and fighting and arguing and calling each other out their names, but then they want to turn around and act like they’re more sophisticated than that. And, “I don’t like to be called out of my name.” You know what I mean? Come on.
Dr. Gayle: How else–just like when the whole situation went down with Evelyn and Chad Ochocinco, she was judged so harshly by how she portrayed herself on the show, “Basketball Wives.” So, it’s like–
Dr. Gayle: Don’t flip the script and don’t go on “Oprah” trying to plead your case, when you presented yourself a whole different light, initially.
Frank: You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re talking with Danielle Young, Associate Editor and blogger for Hello Beautiful; a website that provides celebrity gossip, relationship advice and beauty tips for black women. Please tell our listeners how they can find you and your site.
Danielle: You can find us on hellobeautiful.com. We’re on Facebook; facebook.com/hellobeautiful. Twitter, we’re at hellobeautiful and on Instagram, we are hello beautiful official.
Frank: Back to what we were saying about “Big Love” and “Sister Wives.” The irony and–and this is yummy. So, the irony as it pertains to what you guys were saying about them appearing to be a family and then being wives, is one of those–the participants in one of those shows is in court right now, because they have a polygamist relationship. They are formerly married.
Frank: He is formerly married to each of them. Shawty Lo isn’t in court as a result of his relationship with these women and one of the ways that he may very well eliminate that as an issue is by them being baby mamas. Instead of calling them wives, it actually eliminates a potential problem. The same problem that these, that this other–
Danielle: No it doesn’t. Why couldn’t you say, “My child’s mother?” Isn’t that the same thing? Would that get him in court?
Frank: You certainly–
Dr. Gayle: Well, he isn’t going to marry any of them. At the end of the day, no he’s not going to marry any of them, so that’s why he’s not in court. The reason that the other people are in court is because he’s actually taking responsibility. He wants to marry them. Even though the relationship may not be in line with the majority thought, he’s still choosing to say, “Okay, I want to marry these women, I want them in my lives. I want these children to be raised and be in a household with their father.” Even though they all have separate lives, I think he like built a house and they’re all connected, so he spends a certain amount of time with each family. Shawty Lo is not doing that.
Frank: How do you know?
Dr. Gayle: What was portrayed in the clip and what I’m assuming, because, it’s my assumption is that they live here there and everywhere. He goes to this one’s house–
Danielle: That’s exactly–
Dr. Gayle: He goes to that one’s house. He sees them when he wants to. They allow it, because that’s what it is.
Frank: And what is the problem with that. If they’re okay with it and he’s okay with it–and we’re not even talking about the children. Children don’t need necessarily individual–and that, that’s not really the case. I certainly understand the importance of having individual time with each of my children. But time spent with my children are when they’re together. So, we are making a heck of a lot of assumptions by saying–number one, “By not marrying them, he’s not being responsible.” These are your words, Dr. Gayle. And we’re taking major step by saying, “He’s not taking care of his children. He’s not being responsible in the raising of his children.” There’s nothing in that clip that suggested that. In fact, there was plenty–
Danielle: And that’s the problem.
Frank: Say that again.
Danielle: There was nothing in the clip to suggest it.
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Danielle: That’s the only evidence we have to draw our conclusions from.
Frank: I didn’t say that. I didn’t say there–
Danielle: You’re asking us the question and we need to answer it and all we have as research is what they have shown us.
Dr. Gayle: So, that di–
Danielle: So, that’s all we have to draw our conclusions from.
Dr. Gayle: And the difference in the clips from those two shows, right? That one father that has fathered many children, if you see a clip from the “Sister Wives,” you see them spending quality time together, you see them going on trips together, you see him being actively involved; wherein the clip that we saw from Shawty Lo, we saw his baby mamas and her introducing everybody and them cussing and fussing and yelling at each other. That’s what you saw and the difference in the clips.
Danielle: Exactly, calling each other names.
Frank: I saw one of the women that they said was a belligerent baby mama; something to that effect. That was one of them. There was one that was the cool baby mama. There was not just all out mayhem in this clip. I don’t what you guys saw. There was–
Danielle: Nobody is calling it all out mayhem. We’re calling it ignorant. I believe that when you’re introducing people to a show and they have names, a nickname and then a show name, related to the personality like from Seven Dwarf; Sleepy, Happy, Dopy, baby mama, that’s ignorant.
Dr. Gayle: And again, the difference in “Sister Wives–”
Danielle: *(inaudible) 41:58
Dr. Gayle: And in “Sister Wives,” when they’re introduced, they have a name.
Frank: He gave their names. No, the woman who was introducing them as “x, y, z baby mama-”
Dr. Gayle: Right. Exactly.
Frank: Also gave their names. This is Alecia. She’s the “x, y and z.”
Dr. Gayle: She’s the “baby mama x, y and z.”
Frank: Yeah, she’s the “baby mama, x, y and z.” You’re right. She di–but they had names. And if I’m saying anything, it’s I believe I’m smart enough to be able to watch a show and say whether I think it’s bufoonary or not and not watch it anymore. I don’t need to protest. I don’t need to tell other people that they’re not smart enough to make the decision themselves–
Danielle: Well, see and it’s–
Frank: As to whether they watch the show.
Danielle: It isn’t always about who is underneath it. It’s always about the children. It’s always about the impressionable people that are looking at this and wanting to emulate it. It’s about your children who see this and think, “Oh, look daddy, I can do this and be famous.”
Dr. Gayle: Exactly.
Danielle: It’s about those people that we’re trying to have a voice for.
Dr. Gayle: Exactly.
Danielle: And I think that there’s nothing necessarily wrong with wanting– think about how when you’re growing up and you’re learning those lessons and your mama’s telling you that you things that you don’t want to do or she’s telling you to stop doing the things that you want to do. It’s for your own good. But you pout and you’re mad about it and it gets on your nerves. This is the same situation. We want to stop a situation to help these kids and whether or not they want to watch it, we can’t control that, but what we can control is whether or not it goes up.
Dr. Gayle: What either–
Danielle: *(inaudible) 43:43 I’m glad you did. People don’t kick and scream and pout, but it’s for our own good.
Frank: Well, but if we back up to that scenario that you just mentioned when we were children, you’re talking about my relationship with my parents. And like you said, those children–the children we’re “protecting.” Well, they’ve got parents. We can let those parents make a decision.
Danielle: Let them sign the petition. They’ll have joined in the fight to shut it down.
Dr. Gayle: / And that doesn’t mean that their parents are making the best decision for them.
Frank: So we get to decide what a parent should tell their kids?
Dr. Gayle: That’s why we have things in place, our agencies in place.
Danielle: People are influenced *(inaudible) 44:25.
Dr. Gayle: For instance, if parents were acting out or they are unruly or they’re neglectful, we have social services, right? That’s what they’re there for. If parents are allowing their children to be on TV, to be berated on TV and things like that and–
Frank: That’s called Social Services.
Dr. Gayle: [Per rated] 44:44, then we sign a petition and we say, “This isn’t appropriate for these children.” At the end of the day, these kids, at some point they’re going to go to school and their peers or whoever is going to see them on TV, going to see their parents acting a fool on TV and they will get slighted for that.
Dr. Gayle: When we were growing up or when I was growing up at least I had the Cosby show. I had stuff like that to emulate on TV. Now on TV, we have these outrageous reality shows such as Shawty Lo and “Basketball Wives” and “Sixteen and Pregnant” for kids to emulate. And they think that, “Oh, it’s okay.” Just like how these high school girls made a pack. “Let’s all get pregnant at the same time.” Who does that?
Dr. Gayle: Who’s going to take care of these kids?
Dr. Gayle: Like whose supports them? We do, the tax payers.
Frank: The father–
Dr. Gayle: No, we support them. Come on.
Frank: There was nothing that said or suggested that said any of these children were on welfare, public assistance–
Dr. Gayle: I’m saying with regard to the pack that these high school girls made. I’m saying shows like this that they start and high school girls and younger teenagers and younger girls thinking, “Wow, if I act like this, then I can get some type of fame from it.”
Dr. Gayle: They don’t think long-term.
Frank: Well, let’s play with something you said a few minutes ago. And it’s so much rich conversation to be had. You mentioned “The Cosby Show.”
Dr. Gayle: Uh-huh.
Frank: Oh, how wonderful to talk about “The Cosby Show.”
Dr. Gayle: Okay.
Frank: Well, let me preface it with I am a “Cosby Show” fan. I watched it growing up. I’m a Bill Cosby fan. I appreciate him. I appreciate the standards that he expouses. Don’t necessarily agree, but I liken generally speaking, what Bill Cosby has brought to the table.
Dr. Gayle: Okay.
Frank: Okay, and Bill Cosby had an affair around the time the “Cosby Show” was on television; going strong, the top show in the country, and he had an affair and a child out of that relationship that we was paying the mother hush money to keep it on the low.
Dr. Gayle: Uh-huh.
Frank: So, we are saying “Cosby Show” was so wonderful, yet it was fiction when we know the reality. And let’s be clear, people thought that he had a similar family setup as his regular family: similar number of children, similar number of boys to girls. Things of that nature. So, it was a natural correlation to his real life in people’s minds. So, we go from watching fiction, thinking that it’s reality to now seeing and not knowing what the actual reality was. Cliff was never tip-toeing down the block to his neighbor’s house to spend the night and having a “love child.” And I am not saying at all, I have a problem with any of that. I’m just simply saying, we’re not really talking about the whole issue and we–
Dr. Gayle: But at the same time, that was a scripted show and now we’re watching scripted reality.
Frank: So, we’re saying that the “Cosby Show” was what sustained us, it was the good stuff, yet it was fiction. It was fiction that was fictitious. If it’s based on his real life, it wasn’t even real, but yet we see this guy who’s doing what–I mean he’s out front. “Look, I got 10 babies–”
Dr. Gayle: We’re just saying what is presented to us on in the media on TV. We’re not talking Bill Cosby’s private life and anything of that nature. We’re just talking about what is presented to us and what’s being saturated in the media right now.
Frank: We’re also talking about what we do with it and how we believe it shapes our lives and how it affects our children. We are talking about all of that, so it’s not as simple.
Dr. Gayle: Let’s flip the script then, Frank. If there was a woman that had 10 kids by 10 different baby daddy’s, would that be okay?
Frank: Okay verses what? Not okay.
Dr. Gayle: Verses Shawty Lo. Because you’re in favor of Shawty Lo having 11 kids by ten different baby mamas; you’re saying that’s okay. So, if a woman had 11 kids by 10 different baby daddy’s, would that be okay?
Frank: Absolutely, and lets go to a bigger issue that I’ve been wanting to get to.
Dr. Gayle: Please get to it.
Frank: What if this man wanted 10 children and as far as I’m concerned, he has them so he wanted them. He wants 10 children, but these women, don’t want to have 10 children, they don’t want to have two children, they don’t want to have three kids, how should he proceed? What should he do? Should he not have the kids or should he do what he’s done? And the same thing with the mother that you suggested; let’s say she wants 10 children and the men that she has in her life don’t want 10 children. They each just want one. And on top of that, they’re willing to be in these children’s lives and raise these children. Talk to me ladies.
Danielle: I mean, that is such a specific “what if,” there’s no way to even combat it. What are you supposed to say?
Danielle: So what if there’s not *(inaudible) 50:39? Come on, like–
Frank: Well, let’s–
Danielle: That just becomes a whole different. There’s not even a way to get away that type of hypothetical.
Frank: Let’s pick one, let’s–
Danielle: So, what if this is the situation? Then, you have Shawty Lo.
Dr. Gayle: Right.
Danielle: There’s probably 10,000 Shawty Lo’s around the world, but we don’t have a show. All we’re trying to do is to see that we don’t see it, because, I don’t feel like we have to see it.
Frank: Is there–
Danielle: It doesn’t have to be on TV for us to consume it. That’s the bottom line.
Frank: Was there any positive–
Danielle: The hypothetical to all that–
Frank: Was there anything positive–
Frank: That might’ve come from this show?
Danielle: The only thing positive that could’ve come from the show is the fact that he could feed his kids but that is not even a series thing to provide for 11 children. You don’t need a reality show for that, so–
Frank: Do we need a reality show for “Basketball Wives?” Do we need to see that?
Danielle: No, and that’s why people try to take it off the air.
Dr. Gayle: No. we don’t. We don’t. That’s why people try to have a petition for that at the same time.
Dr. Gayle: We tried to petition “Basketball Wives” and that’s why-well, it was rumored that so many of the cast members were taken off or not asked back, because it had gotten to a point where it was very degrading to women. All they did was curse people out or curse each other out and fight and argue and really half of them weren’t even wives, so.
Frank: That’s still the case.
Frank: Very few of them are wives.
Dr. Gayle: Right. So, you asked the question, “Does it need to be on the air?” No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t need to be on the air, but it it gets ratings, because of the ignorance that it shows and sadly enough that’s what our society has come to.
Frank: Why is that sad?
Dr. Gayle: What do you mean, “Why is that sad?”
Frank: “That’s what our society has come to.” It has come to what?
Dr. Gayle: It has come to women degrading each other, cursing each other out, fighting off the drop of a hat, just because “I don’t like you, I’m going to punch you in the face.”
Frank: How would you–
Frank: Danielle what are your thoughts on a petition goes around? Okay, the first one got 35,000 signatures. Let’s say a petition goes around; 300,000 signatures get signed that says, “Bring the show back on.” Are we worse off as a people? Are black people–have they gone to an even worse level now?
Danielle: No, I can’t necessarily judge the level in which people go to if the show was to get petitioned. Well, it does have a petition. I’m not sure of the number of signatures, but if it does get what it needs to go on, I just think it’s sad that, that’s what we demand. The same people that protest to get it back on the air are the same people who bashed Tyler Perry for putting on a dress and then sit around making all this money. Those are the same exact people and I don’t think conditional or situational choosing of what’s appropriate is fair. So, if you’re going to say that “we need to see some babies mamas on TV arguing and fighting with each other,” then they deserve it. I just don’t think that it deserves to be on the air. That’s just is my bottom line. I can’t judge the people who want to see it, but I just don’t think it deserves it.
Frank: You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re talking with Danielle Young, Associate Editor and blogger for Hello Beautiful; a website that provides celebrity gossip, relationship advice and beauty tips for black women. Once again Danielle, please tell our listeners how they can find you and your site.
Danielle: You can find us on hellobeautiful.com, on facebook.com/hellobeautiful, on Twitter at hellobeautiful and on instagram at hello beautiful official.
Frank: If the show would’ve aired, would you have watched it, just to see what it was like? If for no other reason
Danielle: If they gave me enough in the trailer.
Danielle: I would’ve been curious, had it been like two minute teaser or something, but the trailer was quite enough. No, I probably wouldn’t watched it.
Frank: Not that–
Danielle: And I haven’t seen the season of “Basketball Wives” since the first season. I don’t know who’s on “The Real Housewives” or anything, and that’s just my personal preference.
Frank: Nice, so you were exercising your personal preference. I appreciate that.
Frank: Some view the cancellation as taking food out of children’s mouths; particularly his kids. What do you think about that?
Danielle: Like I said before, my grandmother had 13 children. She’s never been on or seen a reality show and she always provided for them, so I do not think that you should say that your bread and butter is a reality TV show.
He’s a producer. He’s a record label or for a record label exec. He has the mindset and the ability to succeed in a place where you wouldn’t even think he would be able to. You know, he used to sell drugs and he honestly went back to it after entering the music industry and having a label. So, I feel like Shawty Lo chooses the easy way out and that’s his problem.
Frank: Okay, which one of us are not going as easy the route as we can in order to eat, survive and do the things we need to do?
Danielle: There comes a choice when you’re a father that you need to make then it safer for your children. Any type of drug lifestyle is unsafe. I don’t care what level you’re on of it, it is not a safe profession and–
Danielle A father up to 11 children is not going to choose to put his kids in danger if he’s a father to provide for them.
Frank: Well I’m not talking about drugs.
Danielle: And if people honestly–
Frank: I’m not talking about the drug lifestyle and I guess I need to clear that up. I’m talking about the safety or the easy road as it pertains to having a reality TV show. Sure, you can call that an easy road. Yes, who wouldn’t take it?
Dr. Gayle: There’s plenty of people that wouldn’t–
Danielle: He’s had other avenues.
Danielle: He’s had other ways to make money.
Frank: So, we’re–
Danielle: And good money.
Frank: We’re at the point now where we are determining, “Hey, Danielle I’m not going to give you this opportunity or I’m going to fight you having this opportunity, because I want you to do something else to make money.” Is that where we are?
Danielle: No, I don’t think that’s exactly where people are coming from with the petition. I think it’s as simple as they don’t want to see this ignorant crap on TV or shut it down. Because this situation is so much bigger than just one thing, of course it’s going to affect different things. It would mean that he’s not going to get a paycheck. That is just a consequence of wanting to put something ignorant like this on television. That also means the execs at Oxygen won’t be getting their paycheck. It’s just the consequence. Every action has a reaction and everything that you do has a consequence. Yeah, that’s just happens to be one of the things that happens. What can you do?
Frank: Okay. Tell me a little bit about Hello Beautiful and your job as an Associate Editor there?
Danielle: Hello Beautiful, you have detailed is a women’s site. It is geared to women of color. I would believe anywhere from early 20’s to even up into the 50’s. We provide content based on pop culture, entertainment. I cover lifestyle mostly, so I do a lot of health and fitness, recipes, politics and things of that nature. We gear our content to the woman who can shamefully indulge in her guilty pleasures and at the same time want to stay up on current events and pop culture.
Frank: You are listening to Frank Relationships and we’ve talking with Danielle Young, Associate Editor and blogger for Hello Beautiful; a website, as she said, provides celebrity gossip, relationship advice and beauty tips for black women.
Thank you so much for being on the show. Along today’s journey, we’ve discussed having children out of wedlock, sexual promiscuity and lowering the standards around what black people are willing to accept for themselves.
I hope you’ve had as much fun as I’ve had, talking with Ms. Young about sex and relationships. As always, it’s my wish for you to walk away from this conversation with a heaping helping of useful information that will help you create a relationship that’s as loving and accepting as possible. Let us know what you thought of today’s show at facebook/relationshipflove, on twitter at @mrfranklove or at franklove.com. Until next time, keep rising, This is Frank Love.