PodcastThe First Lady of Swinging

August 19, 2013by Frank Love0

Podcast Episode:
Couples? Do you want to experiment with your sexual happenings? Are you and your partner willing to try something outside of the norm? Well swinging might be your thing. If so, listen up as we explore the events and the culture … on this edition of Frank Relationships.



Guests: The First Lady
Date: August 19, 2013

Frank: Couples, want experience with just sexual happenings? Are you and your partner willing to try something outside of the norm? Well, swinging might be your thing. If so, listen up as we explore the events and the culture on this edition of Frank Relationships.

Welcome to Frank Relationships where we provide a candid, fresh and frank look into relationships with goals of acceptance, respect and flexibility. I’m Frank Love and you can find me, my blog and my various social media incarnations at franklove.com.

Once again, I’m joined by my super duper co-host, Dr. Gayl.

Dr. Gayl: Hey, Frank.

Frank: How are you doing?

Dr. Gayl: I’m good.

Frank: How’s the week?

Dr. Gayl: Great.

Frank: Triathlon next week?

Dr. Gayl: I can’t wait.

Frank: That would be swimming, running and biking.

Dr. Gayl: Right.

Frank: Alright. Looking good.

Dr. Gayl: Thanks.

Frank: Feeling good?

Dr. Gayl: Feel good, feel good.

Frank: Good, good, good. Make sure you check out the Frank Love Facebook page to find out who the guests for next week will be. We post that tidbit of information every Monday, about the guests that will host on the forthcoming Thursday. You can go directly to franklove.com and link to it from there.

You can leave your questions or comments and we’ll answer them on the air. You can also tweet us @mrfranklove or you can, of course, call the studio at 202-629-3746, between 8:30 A.M. and 9:30 A.M. every Thursday morning. We record at that time every week.

Did you know that there are parties where you can have a consensual sex with perfect strangers and the experience is designed seemingly for couples and women, Dr. Gayl?

Today’s guest brings the swinging experiences to you around the country. While she’s based in Okalahoma–that’s right, Okalahoma and all places they’re getting it on in Okalahoma.

Dr. Gayl: They don’t have nothing else to do out there. What else are they going to do out there?

Frank: You might find her in Washington, D.C., New York, L.A. or wherever. She is none other than First Lady. But let’s make sure you understand that I understand. She’s not Michelle Obama. No calls please, not about that. Hey I didn’t name her. She’s here to tell us all about the swinging lifestyle, her events and what she calls the “O” experience. Welcome to the show, the first lady.

First Lady: Thank you. Good morning.

Frank/Dr. Gayl: Good morning.

Frank: Is swinging perversion?

First Lady: No, of course not. It’s definitely something different from when it first started, just being couples on couples, but it’s definitely actually become a little bit more accepted in the previous years and generations.

Dr. Gayl: She looks so innocent.

First Lady: I don’t want to tell ya’ll what I used to do.

Dr. Gayl: Well.

Frank: We’re listening.

First Lady: Yeah, I used to be in early education. I definitely took a wide right turn. You know what I’m saying?

Frank: Got you.

Dr. Gayl: Right.

Frank: Teachers have sex too, but I guess this is a little more than sex. But I understand the “O” experience.

First Lady: Yes.

Frank: What is it?

First Lady: The “O” experience is a luxury swingers club. We host different on-premise events and a couple’s night out and a couple of different annual events as well. It’s just a really good place for single ladies and couples to enjoy themselves without being judged or scared to try new things. We have a really good following so far.

Frank: Does “O” stand for something?

First Lady: Stands for many things. It could really stand for anything that, that couple or single lady wants to stand for: organisms, orgies, oh, ouch. Whatever that brings out when you’re experiencing something with another couple.

Dr. Gayl: You mentioned upscale. A couple months or a few months ago, we had someone–a guy come on that does underground. Was it underground, Frank?

Frank: Yeah. I mean it’s all underground.

Dr. Gayl: Orgies, parties. But his wasn’t so much upscale I don’t think, right?

Frank: He did catering and that sort of thing. I don’t think he called it upscale.

Dr. Gayl: It was more like wings and wingdings and stuff like that. You know, a handful of condoms at the door, all that types of things.

Frank: What else, tell me more, Dr. Gayl?

Dr. Gayl: That’s what he said. I have not witnessed it firsthand. It sounded like you were trying to go.

First Lady: What you mean spicy or were they–

Dr. Gayl: He probably had a variety. He probably stopped by Sam’s Club or something and was like, “Yo, get this by the door, grab your condoms, go to the back room, get it in.

First Lady: Got you.

Dr. Gayl: But you sound like you said it was an upscale experience.

First Lady: Luxury.

Dr. Gayl: What is that about? What’s that?

First Lady: I had my fair share of bad and good events, but with luxury, I will only host my events in residential properties actually that are five or six bedrooms–more like mini mansions.

It’s going to have your sauna. It’s going to have your pool. It’s going to have elaborate master bedrooms and bathrooms. It’s going to be spacious. Most of my events are over 2,000 square feet or more. I do have a specific requirement when it comes to my properties, because that is what brings the environment, actually.

Dr. Gayl: What’s your specific requirements?

First Lady: Six bedrooms or more. Has to have a pool, has to have a hot tub and it actually has to have more than one level. It can’t be all on one level. I need space. For my properties, my first level is usually your hang-out spot, get to know each other, have a drinks, eat.

I do provide a full buffet and a full liquor bar. And then, of course, second and third levels are playrooms. If there is a fourth level, that’s usually a rest area. But I have to have a lot of room to create my playrooms.

Dr. Gayl: We’ve learned in previous–not because I know this first, Frank–

Frank: You don’t have to keep clarifying. I get it.

Dr. Gayl: Playrooms. For first time listeners can you explain–

Frank: I’m clear what your line is going to be after this show. Yes, excuse me.

Dr. Gayl: What are playrooms.

First Lady: Playrooms can be a variety of things. Some people have dungeons. That includes more of your dominatrix couples that like the whips and the chains. I don’t go that far, just simply, because personally I don’t know enough about that side of the lifestyle.

Frank: When you say you don’t go that far, do you mean you don’t go in the rooms and participate, but that you know it is happening or you don’t have it go on at your events?

First Lady: Both. I don’t play at my own events. I do play at different other events and clubs. But when I host my events, it’s all business for me. But the dominatrix–creating that playroom, because I don’t know much about that background and the lifestyle, I just decided not to–

Dr. Gayl: Include it.

First Lady: Present that. Yeah.

I want to be able to do it the right way. So, I have a lot of research to do on that background. But I do a sensual room. I do rooms for–we like to call them “voyeurs–” for anybody that just wants to sit back and watch another couple. Or if that husband of a couple wants to watch his wife with someone else, we’ve created that one.

I also have a toy room, where you’re have different variety of toys or people bring their own toys as well; and then, a massage room. And then there’s the lap dance that you just have nothing but stripper poles and people trying to do their best on the stripper poles. However, I’ve had a few accidents where people just shouldn’t be on the stripper poles.

Dr. Gayl: That stripper pole is hard.

First Lady: It is.

Dr. Gayl: Yeah.

First Lady: It is..

Dr. Gayl: It’s very deceiving.

First Lady: I had one lady that she actually took a pole class–

Dr. Gayl: I took a strip class.

First Lady: Yeah, she took a pole class.

Frank: Oh, you’ll admit to that. Okay, alright.

First Lady: Nothing wrong. It’s healthy. She was telling me, it really builds muscles. She showed us a few tricks on that thing and hey.

Frank: Either one of you all a King of Queens fans? Oh, come on. You never watched the Kings of Queens? There’s an episode where–you know Jeff. Okay, there’s an episode where the husband demonstrates–he tells his wife that he wants her to do the pole dance thing and she apparently takes a class and is absolutely horrible.

I mean, he is mortified when she comes home and tries this stuff out. So, he actually gets out there on the pole to demonstrate to her how it should be done and he does a great job. It is hilarious. If you get a chance, check out the what is it–

Frank/Dr. Gayl: The pole dancing episode–

Frank: Of the King of Queens.

First Lady: Wow.

Frank: Okay.

Dr. Gayl: Okay.

Frank: Back to business. The mansions–so when you book a mansion, do you tell the–

Dr. Gayl: Owners.

Frank: Person who owns it, “Hey, we’re going to be doing a swingers event?”

First Lady: Yes. I don’t want any problems. Don’t want any issues. Honesty is the best policy. I have been turned away, which is fine. It is Okalahoma. People aren’t as exceptive, but mostly within that Okalahoma crowd, I’ve met a lot of people who are in real estate who are willing to put me into the right people that are okay with that type of lifestyle going on at their property.

Frank: Do you tell them as soon as you call. “Hey, I’m looking for a 2,000 square feet property. I’m planning to do a swingers event.” Or do you go to the property, look at it, kind of scope it out and then say, “Well, this is my plan.”

First Lady: I actually go to the property first, because I have to see what I can turn it into for an event and if it’s not something I feel like I can do, I don’t take it. Yeah, I call and I go and see and talk. And then if it’s something, I do. I go into, “This is my club. I’m looking to host an event. I provide all this, so I can clean it up.”

Usually most people will ask for a higher deposit, obviously. It’s an event of a big size, but there are a lot of places out in Okalahoma, believe it or not, that are for parties and events and they’re perfectly fine with whatever you’re hosting as long as you don’t damage their property and you keep it clean and don’t have any problems.

Frank: How many people tend to show up at your events?

First Lady: My very first event, I remember I actually only had four couples, I think. And then, finally it’s definitely grown a little bit more. I would usually have at least six couples pre-pay, which are guaranteed couples. And then, of course everybody kind of just fills out through the night.

Sometimes I’ll have an event where there’ll be 15 to 20 couples in one house and then it will die down. Some people will fall asleep, wake back up. And then you’ll get the after-dance-club rush, where people want to come in and see what’s going on or they put their kids to sleep, “Let’s go have some fun.” It can get pretty big and then take a break, get small and get big again. That’s kind of the way it goes, just because it goes all night long.

Dr. Gayl: Now, what are the behind the scenes things that you have to handle, like the waivers, consent forms? How do you distribute? What’s your list like? How do you let people know these types of events are going on?

First Lady: Behind the scenes is very hard actually.

Frank: Of course, that’s where the work is done.

First Lady: It’s so difficult and I’m such a perfectionist, I’ve learned in creating the club that I probably need help, but I just like everything done a certain way, so I do it myself.

With promotion we definitely do social sites: Facebook.com and of course Instagram. We actually have a lot more followers on Instagram, just because people are more family-oriented with Facebook. So, we don’t a get a lot of people on Facebook, just because they don’t want to admit they’re swingers. But as far as waivers goes, there’s really not much to it in Okalahoma.

I’ve definitely checked into the laws. There’s no law against hosting an event, especially in a residential property, which is a lot less difficult than getting a building and having to do zoning. That’s just too much.

It’s actually easier for me to operate if I do a hotel or a residential property where I’m just renting it out at night or two nights.

Frank: What about the laws when you travel? When you’re doing an event in D.C. or LA or New York or wherever?

First Lady: They’re actually pretty much the same, because I don’t have a building. It’s personal. We’re definitely a registered business, but it’s different when you don’t have that property that you’re sitting on all the time.

You can always go to a hotel and host a party. There’s no law against that. But luckily, I’ve looked into some wonderful lawyers who are actually specifically for the lifestyle and the sex laws here in the U.S. I’m blessed that I haven’t had a problem legally.

Dr. Gayl: How’d you get started in this business?

First Lady: I actually ended up being a swinger when I was younger. I had an older boyfriend who introduced me to it and–

Frank: You are how old now?

First Lady: I’m 27 years old.

Frank: When you were younger? Okay.

First Lady: You know. Hey, hey.

Frank: How much younger can you be? We’re a bunch of older fuddy duddies, right now.

First Lady: I was 17 years old and I definitely shouldn’t have been doing what I was doing, but I loved it. I had a great time. My first party was in Seattle. Big four level house, actually had noise resistance. It was interesting and everybody was having a great time and the people were just so open-minded and friendly. It was even just about sex. It was just about having a good time and getting to know other people. I’ve been doing it.

Frank: How much older was your boyfriend?

First Lady: Twenty-five.

Frank: When you were 17?

First Lady: Yeah

Frank: Tell me, how did you all fizzle out? What happened there?

First Lady: I grew up.

Frank: Okay.

First Lady: I was like, “I can do better.”

Frank: Alright.

First Lady: You know.

Frank: Why not play at your own events?

First Lady: I have to be the hostess. I have to make sure that everything is going correctly. I have to make sure everybody’s safe. I have to make sure that things are being picked up and I greet my guests every time I’m at the events. It just doesn’t feel right playing. It’s all business, for me, when I host my event. But I do play at different clubs.

Frank: And what are some of the safety concerns?

First Lady: Definitely safety concerns are making sure people are in control of themselves when drinking, because we do provide a full liquor bar. We want to make sure that everybody knows “no” means “no.” That’s really our number one safety concern and just making sure that there’s nobody being taken advantage of.

Some times we have women who have a little too much to drink and they pass out. We do have rooms when that does happen for the women to go and sleep or the men to go and sleep. But we want to make sure that when those women are asleep or those men even, that nobody’s doing anything to them that they should not be doing.

Dr. Gayl: What are your rules?

First Lady: Rules–number one, “no” means “no.” Second, there are no single men allowed in my events at all.

Dr. Gayl: I was going to ask you that. Is that like a ground rule for a lot of these events, because I think that’s what the guy said too–that we had on before, that has these types of events. He could have single women there, but no single men.

First Lady: It’s not necessarily a ground rule. Some clubs do allow it. They just charge a higher price for them. I’ve seen it where it’s been $300 at the door for single men.

Dr. Gayl: Wow.

First Lady: Yeah, and they’ll pay it. I call them the sheep or the wolf in the sheep’s pen, because they’re just so pushy. It’s not really about being too, too pushy. Swinger events are more for women to explore their sexuality and have fun and not be judged, but also to play with other women or other couples. And when you’ve got single men there along with husbands who may not want a man with their wife, but want a woman instead, it causes problems and that’s too much tension in one event. So, I’ve just cut it all out.

I’m not going to charge extra, I’m just going to say, “You can’t come.” But I do host single’s swingers’ events, where they, of course, are allowed there.

Frank: Define single? Is single, a man that does not come with a woman or is it a man who comes with a woman and considers himself single?

First Lady: Single in my club, and not in my personal life, means a man who does not have a girlfriend, fiancé or wife. I understand there are people who end up being friends with benefits. That’s alright with me, but that’s not exactly okay with other couples, because you have to be strong in your relationship to attend these events and have a good time. And if you’re not strong in your relationship, it’s going to cause friction.

Frank: So, if a guy comes with a woman, do you ask at the door, “Hey, are you guys married? Is this your fiancé?”

First Lady: Actually, they have to fill out a guest application, which has questions regarding not just their relationships in their personal status, but “How long have you been together? Have you ever attended a swinger event?” And I do my best to weed out the people who are just answering things.

You have to put some thought into these questions and if you’re just giving me one-lined answers, I’m probably not going to invite you to an event. I’m going to put your application to the side.

Dr. Gayl: Do they have to fill out the application before they come? Do you have a group of people that are members and then walk-ins?

First Lady: Yeah. They do have to fill out a guest application to get an event or any information on the event. And then, I go through each and every application. They also have to send a photo with their application as well.

Members are strictly only for the state of Okalahoma. Everyone else is, unfortunately, a guest right now. So, membership is strictly for Okalahoma.

Dr. Gayl: Do you have same-sex couples?

First Lady: Yes, I do host lesbian events and gay male events, because certain couples do want a lady or some couples, actually do want men, its–

Dr. Gayl: Do you mix them with heterosexual and homo–

First Lady: No, those are always separate events, and that’s just because I don’t want any problems. Men tend to not want other men in the room when they’re doing stuff. So no, it has to be separate.

Frank: When they’re doing what?

First Lady: Well, most men if–

Dr. Gayl: Sex.

First Lady: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: We’re talking about sex, Frank.

Frank: Yeah, but–

Dr. Gayl: I’m just kidding.

Frank: Des this mean when two men are having sex with one another, they don’t want other men around? I’m not clear.

First Lady: It’s like if I was to host an event and I allowed bisexual men or gay men into that event where it’s mostly straight couples, that husband might feel uncomfortable if he’s with his wife and they’re engaging in a sexual activity.

If there’s this gay male or bisexual male in the room watching, maybe pleasuring himself while watching, they might feel tension. Most men, straight men don’t like other gay men.

Frank: So, pleasuring himself in terms of masturbating?

First Lady: Correct.

Frank: And the guy would think he was maybe masturbating to him.

First Lady: To him–and not really.

Frank: Yeah.

First Lady: And that would create a problem. So, I just–

Dr. Gayl: That’s understandable.

Frank: See, I don’t know these things. You guys got to work with me.

First Lady: It definitely comes from experience. That’s for sure. It definitely comes from experience. There’s a lot to know in the lifestyle.

Dr. Gayl: What are the demographics of your clients?

First Lady: Actually, I’ve noticed I have more of a younger crowd that’s become interested in it more in their early 20’s to late 30’s. It used to be just older people would swing, more mature adults and ladies. But now, it’s become kind of in my generation. And then, as far as the ethnic background goes, all different type of races have showed interest.

Dr. Gayl: Socioeconomic status. What about that?

First Lady: I’m sorry?

Dr. Gayl: What about the socioeconomic status? I’m assuming that it has to be middle class or higher, right? Because you’re renting these–

First Lady: Luxury. Correct. I know I’ve gotten a lot of people who feel I’m mean about this, but luxury does mean you have to pay for it and it does mean you’re going to pay a higher price for certain things that I provide.

Dr. Gayl: What are the price tags like?

First Lady: Well, for Okalahoma residents, they’re going to pay $65 at the door and that does include couples only. And then, single ladies, I only charge $35 at the door and that includes your full buffet and your full liquor bar. And I think that’s a reasonable price.

Dr. Gayl: I think that’s kind of cheap.

Frank: Yeah. It doesn’t seem expensive.

First Lady: In Okalahoma, because of what they’re used to as far as paying for things, that’s expensive.

Dr. Gayl: Not that I know the base rate for these things, but–

Frank: Or what they’re paying in Okalahoma.

First Lady: No, it is actually. I felt that, that was actually a reasonable price. But believe it or not, I get people who are just like “No, I’m good,” because there are other clubs in the area that are charging $20. But they’re at like the Days Inn.

Dr. Gayl: But they’re not luxury, right?

First Lady: No, yeah and they’re not. And some of them are off-premises as well, so they’re not the best places to have an experience.

Now when I do travel, the price obviously goes up because my expenses go up. So when I travel, you’re usually looking at $100 at the door. But that does include so much more than what you’re going to get in your area.

Dr. Gayl: Right.

First Lady: You know.

Dr. Gayl: People will contact you or–

First Lady: No, I just choose different cities that I experienced the swinger lifestyle and I go and I take the club there. We’re working on our tour dates for next year. I’m almost done with that. But I like to tour more than just staying in one place.

Dr. Gayl: Are these the same things as orgies? What’s the difference?

First Lady: Orgies are more all-in-one. You’re going to have bi. You’re going to have lesbians. You’re going to have gay. You’re going to have straight, all in your one big old thing. Orgies are more than 10 people, I think. I think I read it was five or 10 people as far as to considerate an orgy. But everybody’s playing with everybody.

Dr. Gayl: It’s like a free-for-all?

First Lady: It’s a free-for-all. And I’ve heard people who hosted orgy events where you just one to have a one-time experience to try it out and say you’ve tried it, see if you like it type stuff. I personally don’t really like the orgies. It’s kind of messy, too much going on.

Frank: So, you’ve been to one?

First Lady: I have been to one. It wasn’t for me. It really wasn’t. I don’t know if it was just because of the event that was being hosted or if I really just didn’t like it. I think it was a little bit of both. I have to have a really clean spacious atmosphere and they don’t provide that.

Dr. Gayl: Right.

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You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re talking with the first lady as she discusses the “O” experience; her solution for spicing things up in the bedroom. Please tell our listeners how they can find out more about you and your work.

First Lady: The best way actually, if you’re looking to really talk with me directly, is to go and email me at theoexperience@yahoo.com. We do have a website. However, we’re under construction, unfortunately. We’re updating some things. But it is theoexperience.net. We’re also on Facebook. Just look us up: theoexperience. And we’re also on Instagram and just look us up at: oexperience.

Frank: Security, let’s hear it.

First Lady: I actually like the fact that I have security, because I’ve heard from so many people that no one does. Security is going to check you at the door for any cell phones, because we don’t allow them in the event.

Frank: I understand why.

First Lady: Yes, our discretion. I’ve had certain high profile people attend and I don’t allow cell phones at all. You will be checked. If you have one, you’re going to be either ask to leave or you’re going to ask to put it away.

They also go around the events to make sure that everybody’s doing what they should be doing as far as being respectful. And then they also tour the different properties that we host and make sure that there’s no people lollygagging around the outside, trying to get in or trying to take pictures or anything like that. So, I’m very big on security.

Frank: Do you have a regular cadre of security?

First Lady: Yes.

Frank: Really?

First Lady: Yes. They’re actually based out of Okalahoma. It’s just a personal bonded security. They can make the arrest, if need be. That was very important for me, because I don’t want anybody to have to call the cops. I want my cops already there. I’m very big with safety and I don’t want any problems.

Frank: You have a sign or anything that says, “No cell phones?” How do people know that they can’t bring their cell phones?

First Lady: It’s on the website. It’s always on your invitation. Once you receive your invitation, we have a list of rules that we send. The rules are also on the website. That will tell you what’s allowed and what’s not allowed. And I make the event where the couples don’t have to bring anything. The only thing that they would have to bring is their ID, but they don’t have to bring any thing else. I provide all your safety, all your towels, all your cleaning things that you’re going to need personalized. I provide it all.

Frank: Just they do need to wear clothes inside, right?

First Lady: They do, but you have to dress to the theme and then stick with the dress code. We do have a dress code. Women must wear lingerie, preferably corsets, teddies.

Frank: They walk in with lingerie or they put lingerie on when they get there?

First Lady: Actually, we have a time where they’re dressed in theme, if there is a theme. Like if we have a costume party or something. And then once the lights are turned low, that’s when every one’s required to be in dress code.

Dr. Gayl: Walk us through a typical event.

First Lady: Typical events–you’re going to come in probably around 9:30 P.M. I’m going to greet you in, most likely, the foyer. I’ll take your payment if you haven’t already paid. If you have paid, I’ll make sure I’ve checked your receipts.

Depending on if other people are there or not, I might personally give the tour of the property. Or if there are other people there, couples usually go off and tour on their own. I always make sure that everybody knows the food and “its hot now get it while you can,” because they do purchase it. And then “get your drinks as well.”

Some couples will ask certain questions that they didn’t get to ask, like “is this allowed?” Personal things like that. And then, for about an hour or an hour and half, people are mingling, getting their drinks, eating.

Dr. Gayl: Do you have a DJ?

First Lady: I don’t.

Dr. Gayl: You should have a DJ.

First Lady: You know, here’s the thing with the DJ.

Dr. Gayl: Okay.

First Lady: It’s not that type of event where you want people to get hyped and turned up.

Dr. Gayl: Okay.

First Lady: It’s not one of those, “Let’s play the latest hip pop.” it’s not that, so I play regular old Rap City, Pandora or whatever and I’ll usually have some sensual music. A lot of people like my Sade play list. I have all of her albums on one and people find that to be kind of the thing they like. No DJ at all.

Dr. Gayl: Okay.

First Lady: I have looked into it for our annual events. For our Halloween party, I might have a DJ. And for our New Year’s Eve party, I might have a DJ, but regular events, no.

Dr. Gayl: Okay.

Frank: Tell me about your participation. When you go to a swinger’s event, who do you have sex with and why and when. Tell me. How do you as a swinger get into it?

First Lady: I actually have a particular club I go to that I frequent in Houston, Texas. Wonderful, luxury thing. They’re not as big, but they’re getting there and when I go, I don’t always play. Sometimes I just like to be around the people, because I’m not a nightclub kind of girl. I actually feel uncomfortable at nightclubs, because it’s just not my scene. But when I go, there might be a good looking gentleman there. I’m really particular.

Dr. Gayl: What do you mean by that–particular meaning what?

First Lady: I’m picky with my men and my women. I like a tall guy. I like a guy with muscles. And I also like a guy with really big penises, so I’m not going to always play, because I’m not going to always find–I know the shock value on that one.

Dr. Gayl: Well, Frank–.

Frank: How would you know? Okay.
Dr. Gayl: You *(inaudible) 31:53. I don’t know about all the other stuff.

Frank: Why–go on.

First Lady: It’s fun. I definitely have a good time. Even if I don’t play in the event, I always have a great time. I like it.

Dr. Gayl: Now, when you’re in a relationship or if you have a boyfriend, how does he feel about that?

First Lady: It’s so funny that you say that. I’m starting to talk with someone here and they’re so supportive of what I’m doing and so open to it that I’ve never had a problem with a boyfriend who said, “Oh, I don’t want to do this.” If anything, they want to know more about it and kind of get into it and see if they like it, but–

Dr. Gayl: How do you introduce that? Is it on date one, date three? “What do you do?” “Well–”

First Lady: I know, right. I’m a sexual person. I don’t know what it is about just education on sex and different things and taking it to the next level that I enjoy so much, but if you’re on a date with me or you’ve gotten to that point where you’ve gotten on a date with me, you already know that.

I’ve already said, “This is how I am.” They’ve listened with ears wide open and mind wide open. And I say, “Hey, have you ever done this and this is what I like?” Sometimes during a date you end up talking about sex and what you like and what you’re into and that really how I work it in.
Dr. Gayl: How many, have you had dates that are like really want to try this gung ho about trying it and then you guys don’t work out?

First Lady: No, because even though I have dates, they might be interested, but not interested enough to go with me. I know I do have an ex that ended up going without me, but likes it. We just didn’t work out, so we don’t go together. But he does attend events, actually, in Houston. So, it hasn’t happened yet.

Dr. Gayl: So, the only boyfriend that you had, that you’d gone to an event with, was the one that introduced you?

First Lady: Correct.

Dr. Gayl: Oh, okay.

First Lady: Correct and that’s only, because you can’t really take everybody there. You have to be secure in your relationship first before you attend the swinger event. All the couples, get all of your stuff out before you go, because you don’t want any type of–

Dr. Gayl: Now, you mentioned that several times. What do you mean by that? You have to be secure. What does that mean?

First Lady: You can’t be jealous. If you are one of those people who you’re not sure if you’re okay with your partner doing other things with other people, don’t go. Don’t say, “Hey, let’s try it first,” because you have to get rid of that small little fear of jealousy or whatever, because it’s not going to work.

Frank: When you say, don’t say, “Let’s just try it first,” how do you work your way up to it?

Dr. Gayl: How do you introduce that to, “Hey Frank, you want to go to the–”

Frank: Yeah.

First Lady: Most couples and what I’ve heard is, they knew they were swingers when they started dating. And a lot of the married couples claim that too. It was something we had a mutual interest in.

I haven’t met a couple yet that started separately or together and this is their first event. It’s usually the couples have done it on their own before and they just come together and end up going. You hear stories where couples are with other couples and literally mid-thrust or whatever, the guy usually says, “I can’t do this anymore.” Or the girl says, “Hey, I can’t do this. I’m uncomfortable.” And I’ve heard where couples get up, get their things and they leave.

Dr. Gay: This is my biased opinion.

Frank: Yeah. You rarely have those.

Dr. Gayl: Typically I have one. What’s missing from just a two person relationship that they have to go to parties and play or introduce other couples into their situation or relationship that isn’t fulfilling for them at home?

Frank: Wait, before you even answer that. The quest was, “What’s missing from a two person–”

Dr. Gayl: It was very convoluted.

Frank: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: It was.

Frank: “What’s missing from a two person relationship where they feel like they have to go and play?” Well, what’s missing is they feel like they got to go and play.

Dr. Gayl: Can you let her answer the question?

Frank: I wanted to answer that. I wanted to say that. Get it on the record that it was a very–you answered your own question.

Dr. Gayl: No, I didn’t. You answered it.

Frank: What’s missing from a popcornless concession stand? Well, popcorn.

Dr. Gayl: Well, she just stated that sometimes people get there and they’re like, “Whoa, this isn’t for me.”

First Lady: That’s true.

Dr. Gayl: So, maybe there isn’t something that’s missing, maybe they just need to spice it up within themselves.

Frank: Okay, First Lady.

Dr. Gayl: First Lady, since you’re in that lifestyle, what do people say or what have you heard or what do you think is missing?

First Lady: What I’ve heard and what I feel actually is, when you have couples who’ve been together for quite awhile–and we do have couples that have been together five years plus and on and on–it gets a little old. And sometimes it gets a little boring and you need new ideas or you need new experiences and so they come to the “O” experience to get those new ideas and experience those new sexual adventures or collaborate with other couples–put their heads together.

It’s not necessarily that something is missing. They just need something a little new: new ideas. If couples didn’t need new ideas sexually, there wouldn’t be Karma Sutra books out there, there wouldn’t be porn, there wouldn’t be swinger clubs. Everything would be dandy with just two people, but–

Frank: So why not just read the Karma Sutra?

First Lady: Some do. It doesn’t work.

Frank: Okay.

Dr. Gayl: Now let me ask you. Earlier you said this is primarily for women, right? What is it about a woman’s sexual experience that you think or that you’ve heard that they need something like this?

First Lady: Actually, it really has a lot to do with a woman’s right to have sex with whomever, whenever and however much she wants to without being labeled a slut or a hoe or those types of things.

When you think of a woman having sex with multiple partners or even one-night stands, that’s the label she gets, verses where men can do it and it’s like high five in the air. “How was it?” So, with a swinger event, it’s really for women to just let their hair down, let their sexual angel, little naughty girl out, without being judged. And they can have fun doing it.

Like I said earlier, I don’t actually like going to the dance clubs or the nightclubs, just because if I hook up with somebody, it’s a one-night stand and I want to go back again the other night, it’s another one-night stand. I just want it all in one place where I won’t be judged and I can be sexually free with my interest.

Frank: You ever feel like you need to do a PR campaign and just say, “Women want one-night stands too?”

First Lady: Sometimes.

Frank: Really?

First Lady: Yeah.

Frank: Okay.

First Lady: I like pushing the fact that we’re open there for women and they’re not going to be judged. I actually like pushing women’s sexuality and being free sexually with what I’m into.

Frank: And would you think you needed to make that campaign geared towards men or women?

First Lady: That’s a good question. I think I would actually try to do both. I mean, women would be my main focus, but I think I would do a little research on how I can promote that to men and get their minds open to it a little bit more.

Speaking with my best friend, he kind of said, he prefers a woman who’s only had maybe two or three partners verses him. That’s my friend. That’s my boy, but he’s no angel when it comes to one-night stands. So, I kind of thought it was like contradicting. You want someone–

Dr. Gayl: Of course it is.

First Lady: Who only had three, but you’ve had–

Dr. Gayl: Fifty-three.

First Lady: Fifty-plus and then you’ve got to divide that number by three. So, I was just like, “You know, that doesn’t make sense.” But he’s like, “You’ve got to think about it. It’s the hole you’re entering. You don’t want that. That’s like–” No. You’re just making up excuses.

Frank: I got a Dr. Gayl question.

Dr. Gayl: Hit it.

Frank: Do women want one-night stands too?

Dr. Gayl: Are you asking me that?

Frank: Yes.

Dr. Gayl: You’re asking the wrong one.

Frank: I just asked a general question. Not you. What’s your understanding? Does she need to point that campaign at you? I asked her whether it should be focused–that campaign–if she were to do it on men or women–convincing them and getting and creating more acceptances around the issue? Where do you stand on it?

Dr. Gayl: If you were to have a campaign, I think it would have to be for both, because there is that judgment out there about women are supposed to be pure and we’re supposed to wait until we’re married to have sex. So, if one were to have that type of campaign, I think you would have to allow women to be sexually freer.

Some how let women know that its okay to be sexually free and at the same time have one for men, like your home boy that’s like, “I only want a virgin or I only want somebody that’s only been with me,” because that’s very biased–

First Lady: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: Where you’ve been with 103 people–

First Lady: Exactly.

Dr. Gayl: And you only want the woman to be with one. Now, I have a question–did I answer you a question Frank?

Frank: Go on.

Dr. Gayl: Okay. I didn’t answer it they way you wanted me to, but whatever. What’s new? I have a question for you First Lady. I don’t know since you’re a self-proclaimed sexually free or sexually liberal person, but as women, I think that we are more emotional when it comes to sex. How do you get past that?

First Lady: How do I put it? For one, I’m a Gemini and I really think that it had a lot to do with it. I’ve got those two sides, but even though I’m an emotional person on certain things, I have this sexual mind that sometimes resembles a man, just because of how I can look at sex. I can definitely separate the two from emotions to just a pleasure thing and a learning experience. But I know that there are women out there that can’t do that and it becomes difficult for them. Ad if that’s the case for you, that’s fine and that’s you. Be you and accept it, embrace it. Just be smart about it. However, for me, it’s not a problem. If I’m at an event, I’m there to play and have fun. I’m not there to get your number, text you all day and become Facebook friends. That’s not what it is for me.

Dr. Gayl: And do you specify that when have these events? “Hey, this is just a sexual experience, don’t try to get up the next day. We aren’t going to be boyfriend and girlfriend?” Especially for the single women that come.

First Lady: I definitely advertise play-at-your-own-risk. If a couple engages with a single woman and they haven’t explained or laid out their rules to that single woman–or “Hey, this is just pleasure,” that’s on them. You have to be smart about this, because of the emotions that can be involved with it.

And then I’ve had couples that actually want a girlfriend for themselves. It happens. Either the woman is allowed to have a girlfriend or the man is allowed to have a girlfriend or vice versa. Couples tend to do things their own way and what works best for them.

Frank: Dr. Gayl, question for you.

Dr. Gayl: Go.

Frank: When you say, sex is more emotional for women, I wonder. I don’t know the answer. I wonder if it is more emotional for some women, because sex is leverage that they’re taught to have over men. This is the one thing you can use to control men. And then when it occurs or when it’s occurring and it’s not a big deal to him, it gets to be irritating. She gets to be off put, because it’s not, she’s not getting the payoff that she was taught she would get. What do you think about that?

Dr. Gayl: What’s your question?

Frank: Okay.

Dr. Gayl: I think I know what your question is. It’s separate. In my opinion, because you asked me, it doesn’t matter what the outcome is. Actually, when men don’t care, it doesn’t kind of make it our worse experience, I think, but whether you cared or not, sex is still emotional for women. It’s still an emotional experience for women. I remember you said a couple of weeks ago that, sex is also emotional for men too.

Frank: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: But its only if you are connected with that person, is it emotional for men. Right?

Frank: You’re going to have an emotion or two whether you’re connected with the emotion or not. You may be able to express it or not, but the emotion is there. First Lady, you ever plan on getting married? And do you think that being married has any or has any bearing or swinging has any bearing or getting married or anything like that?

First Lady: You know when it comes to relationships, I’ve learned a long time ago, it’s best for me to just put that in a higher power’s hands because I don’t know what it is about relationships that I’m awkward at, but I’m kind of a work alcoholic. I like my space and sometimes that doesn’t always work for people.

If I was to ever get married, I think I would have to have somebody who is acceptance of this lifestyle, just because I don’t know if I’m ever going to want to stop the lifestyle. I’m still young. There’s a whole future ahead of me. Who knows what I’m going to do. People change everyday.

Frank: You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re talking with First Lady, as she discusses the “O” experience. The “O” experience is her solution for spicing things up in the bedroom. Please tell our listeners how they can find you and more about your work.

First Lady: Yes, they can email me directly at theoexperience@yahoo.com. We’re also on Facebook. Just look us up: theoexperience. And we’re also on Instagram. Just use our user at: oexperience.

Frank: A few months ago, we had the pleasure of having Nana Kwenaba Brown as a guest on the show. His organization in Nyama healing services is now inviting you to his Saturday, October 19th, couples relationship enhancement event in Silver Springs, Maryland.

This workshop has helped hundreds of people over the last 10 years and many couples have returned for a second and third session. It’s for the young and old and is excellent for young couples moving towards commitment and marriage or older couples in need of a tune-up.

Those who come will receive effective communication skills, techniques and strategies for conflict resolution and decision making. Recommendation for identifying establishing and conducting the three important couples meetings, comprehension and techniques or forgiveness and apologies, wonderful exercises for a renewal of sacred sensuality and much more.

For more information, go to nyamahealingservices.event.bright.com or contact Nana Kwenaba Brown at 202-294-4471.

If a couple wants to come and not participate and preview, are their any stipulations on that? Can they come and watch for 10 minutes and then they’ve got to go or what?

First Lady: You can’t just pop in and pop out, just because of how we do our application process and our invitations. If a couple is–I call them newbie’s and I love newbie’s, I let them know if they’re going to want to experience this, you should stay for more than just 10 minutes.

You really need to stay for more than an hour, because of how it can turn out. It might take a little bit longer for things to start popping off or it might pop off right away. So, I always let couples know if this is something you’ve never, ever been to, do not come for only 10 minutes.

You need to come and you need to really experience it. You really need to be a part of it. And even if you’re just watching, that’s fine too. Watch and have fun and mingle. And I’ve had couples come and just want to have sex with each other, but just want to be in the location and the luxury, because they’ve never been in something so luxurious before. It happens where you get those newbie’s that just want to–

Dr. Gayl: What about the newbie’s that you love?

First Lady: They’re new. They’re new and they have a lot of questions and their interest level is really, really high.

Dr. Gayl: You’re popping their cherry.

First Lady: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: Can I say that?

First Lady: Yeah, I guess that can kind of be the way.

Frank: I’m going keep my mouth shut.

First Lady: I like that. I like that.

Dr. Gayl: You can use it.

First Lady: I might have to use that somehow, popping the cherry.

Frank: Dr. Gayl is loosening up over here. I think whenever we have a third swinging show, she’ll say, “Hey, I left there last time and I went and I–” okay.

Dr. Gayl: You’d love that wouldn’t you Frank? You’d absolutely love that.

Frank: Safe sex, do you promote it?

First Lady: Oh, most definitely.

Dr. Gayl: How?

First Lady: I actually promote it a little bit differently than other clubs. Most clubs give you condoms, let you go on your way, do your own thing. I not only provide condoms–when I provide condoms I’ve got them spread out all over the floor, I’ve got a condoms bar. There’s no short supply on condoms.

Dr. Gayl: Wait. Is it mandatory? Do you include that in your–

Frank: Are you walking around with a stick like my teacher used to walk around with?

Dr. Gayl: And like a flashlight–

Frank: Like pointing at the penis.

Dr. Gayl: Is it on.

Frank: And if it’s in there, you’re saying, “Let’s check it out. Pull it out; let me see what you got there.”

First Lady: No. We’re not going that far, because these are adults and adults should take care of their own personal things.

Dr. Gayl: You don’t include it in your contract that condoms have to be worn?

First Lady: The only time that we actually do something where we might pre-screen for STDs is with our VIP memberships, just because of what that includes. On our regular–

Frank: Which is what?

Dr. Gayl: What does a VIP include?

First Lady: That’s going to include taking different trips to not just different cities in the U.S., but different countries. There’s lot of swinger events and conventions going on right now actually. And Vegas is the largest swinging convention in the U.S.

Dr. Gayl: Really?

First Lady: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: What’s the name of it?

First Lady: It’s actually called Vegas Connection. And if you go to vegasconnection.com, you can actually still go, I think, until the 11th.

Frank: So, what are you doing here?

Dr. Gayl: Right. Why are you here and not there?

First Lady: I have a pre-engagement. Actually the “O” experience will be one of the sponsors next year.

Dr. Gayl: Wow.

First Lady: We’re actually going to be an exhibitor. I’m working it out where I can do some speaking at a seminar for first time owners, because they haven’t got that yet. But look it up, vegasconnection.com. It’s a huge event in Vegas. I’ve never been to Vegas.

Dr. Gayl: Will you be going?

First Lady: I will.

Dr. Gayl: This time?

First Lady: No, not this time. I just couldn’t work it in my schedule. It includes trips there. Also to the AVN awards, which are the porn awards in Vegas?

Frank: ABN awards?

First Lady: A-V-N.

Frank: A-V-N and that stands for?

First Lady: Actually, Adult Video Network, I do believe.

Frank: Okay.

First Lady: If I’m not mistaken. I could be wrong on that.

Dr. Gayl: This is what the V.I.P includes?

First Lady: Correct.

Frank: How you win a porn award? Does it–

Dr. Gayl: You don’t watch porn? I mean I–

First Lady: Yeah.

Dr. Gayl: Not that I–I thought most guys watch porn.

Frank: Honestly, I got to tell you. I don’t. It doesn’t do–

Dr. Gayl: You are so bland. You are more bland than I thought you were.

Frank: It doesn’t do anything for me. It’s–

First Lady: What if you have a woman you’re dating and she says, “Hey, I really like porn–”
Dr. Gayl: He’s allegedly married, allegedly.

Frank: I won’t even get into–

First Lady: I don’t want to get in no trouble you know.

Frank: No, I’m married, but I won’t even get into what my wife’s preferences are. But I can just say, I don’t watch porn. It just doesn’t interest me. Period. I much prefer the actual thing.

First Lady: You don’t watch, not even to get new ideas, new moves?

Frank: No. Uh-huh. Nope.

First Lady: Hey.

Frank: No. I talk to Jeff. He’s been married for 30 years.

Dr. Gayl: He’s got all the moves.

First Lady: Yeah.

Frank: Right. Jeff–

First Lady: Yeah. He’s *(inaudible) 53:50 for you.

Frank: Jeff knows everything. He’s almost reaching for the mic and coming up. Come on, Jeff. Jeff, Jeff.

Jeff: If you have to ask you’ll never know.

First Lady: Yeah. So it includes different awards and different trips. There are lots of swinger cruises and actually swinger resorts around the world that we’ll be attending next year.

Because of exclusively, we actually make sure that all of our members on that one actually provide STD testings and things like that.

When I do promote sexual education, I let everybody know where you can go to get your HIV testing for free as well as sexual education on different STDs as well, just because we want everybody to be safe. And unfortunately, sexual education is not geared towards adults like it is towards children and teens.

Frank: Teens. Uh-huh.

First Lady: And a lot of adults just don’t know how you can catch these diseases and things like that. So, I’m really big on promoting safe sex.

Dr. Gayl: Is there anything that is off limits? Like–

First Lady: Like you know?

Dr. Gayl: Oral sex, different positions, stuff like that.

First Lady: It’s all up to the couples and the single ladies on what they want to do. I’ve seen some pretty interesting positions, walking by the rooms. And you’re just like, “Oh, alright. I don’t know how you got like that, but I hope you can get back out.”

Dr. Gayl: Right. During one of your events, you just monitor, like you–

First Lady: Yes.

Dr. Gayl: Just walk by the room.

First Lady: Once I close the doors and don’t allow anymore people in, I walk around and make sure everybody has their needs. I make sure everybody has water. I’m a great hostess, I think. I make sure everybody’s taken care of.

Frank: And you’re not walking around with a pointer–a stick?

First Lady: No, I’m not.

Frank: Okay, alright.

Dr. Gayl: And you’re fully clothed at these events? You don’t have lingerie on?

First Lady: Actually, I do. Usually when you come in, I’m either in theme dress or I’m in a nice sexy dress. But once the lights go down, I usually am in a corset and my heels and whatnot. I like to dress sexy and somewhat classy if I can at my events. So, yeah.

Frank: You got to take away message for the audience? Anything you want the general public–I can’t say the general public is listening to this show. Anything you want the listeners of the show to walk away with?

First Lady: You know, don’t knock it until you’ve try it, type thing, because its not just about sex when it comes to swingers, especially with my club. I definitely do other things outside of the bedroom.

We host couple nights and I want everybody to walk away with long lasting friendships and or relationships if possible. Don’t knock it until you try it. Keep an open mind.

Frank: You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’ve been talking with the First Lady, as she’s discussed the “O” experience, her solution for spicing things up in the bedroom and her swinging events. Please one more time, tell our listeners how they can find out more about you and your work.

First Lady: They can email me directly at theoexperience@yahoo.com. We do have a website. It’s under reconstruction. It’s theoexperience.net. We’re also on Facebook and we’re also on Instagram. Just look us up.

Frank: Along today’s journey, we’ve discussed swinging and exclusive memberships for a swinging organization. I hope you’ve had as much fun as I’ve had talking the First Lady of the “O” experience, a traveling, swinging organization. Is that about right?

First Lady: That’s right.
Frank: Organization.

First Lady: Yeah.

Frank: As always, it’s my wish for you to walk away from this conversation with a heaping helping of useful information that’ll help you create a relationship that’s as loving and accepting as possible. Let us know what you thought of today’s show at: facebook.com/relationshipflove, on Twitter @mrfranklove or at franklove.com. On behalf of my producer, Phileta Legette and my assistant producer, Anayza Stewart and my man on the boards back here, Jeff, this is Frank Love, keep rising.


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