Podcast Episode:
We are talking with a gentleman who can predict who will and won’t have a successful marriage … on this edition of Frank Relationships.
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FRANK RELATIONSHIPS: “DATING FOR LIFE” WITH CRAIG WILSON
Guests: Craig Wilson
Date: June 20, 2016
Frank: We are talking with a gentleman who can predict who will and won’t have a successful marriage… on this edition of Frank Relationships.
Yeah. As always, those are my babies. Thanks for getting daddy’s daughter today.
Okay. Why do I need to know how to date? I mean, that seems like something I already—I’m not talking about me.
Nancy: Yeah, I know.
Frank: I’m just talking about… Why does anybody need to know how to date?
Nancy: Oh you think you should come naturally.
Frank: I think it’s just who we are.
Nancy: Oh.
Frank: I mean, we’re presenting ourselves when we date, right?
Nancy: All the time.
Frank: So what do we need—
Nancy: We’re representing ourselves, period.
Frank: What do we need an actual lesson for?
Nancy: Because obviously, some of us are a bit deficient in the area.
Frank: Well, okay. Would it help to say I’m not talking to you?
Nancy: Hey, I’m always open to learning new things, Frank. That’s my job as a consummate generalist to give it all a shot.
Frank: So… Why do I need to know how to date?
Nancy: Craig?
Craig: Well I would say, it’s kind of like learning to know how to live or how to eat and know how to breathe. I mean, basically when you are… going out every day whether it’s with your children like they were giving you—[unclear] because you know how to show them a good time and you know how to do better in business relationships if you know how to show somebody a good time and there’s a whole secret to them. I got 4 keys just throw it out but I don’t know if you guys knew his but the actual delivery of word for the word “date” is didonal.
Frank: No.
Craig: And in Greek, it stands for “to give”. And so, when you ask anybody out whether it’s a girlfriend, I mean a girl asking a girl out, just as a good girl friend, gal pal hanging out together or if it’s two guys going to a bar, or if it’s a parent taking his child out, or if it’s a colleague asking somebody else to join you for lunch… You just ask them to put something in the calendar, it’s a date. It’s in the calendar. So your [unclear] is to show them a good time and the question is “how do you do that?” and “how do you ensure that you two or three or four will have a good time?”—that’s what this is about.
Frank: What’s that Greek term again?
Craig: Didonal. D-I-D-O-N-A-L and that actually stands for to give.
Frank: Who told you that?
Nancy: Here we go Craig. He says “who told you that?”
Craig: I looked it up.
Nancy: He’s researching his topic.
Craig: I did. I started to write the book and there’s a long story behind why I discovered this little process. At one point, when I [unclear]…
Frank: Well okay, what’s the story?
Craig: …I probably was one of the greatest match.com date in the world because I did everything that the guys—I did nothing that people recommended I do and I did everything that I’ve felt from my heart and it worked out.
Nancy: Nice.
Frank: Okay, what’s the story? The long story and what did you do different than everybody else did?
Craig: Well, when I became single and it was just one of those things where life changes and I’ve been literally travelling three million miles over a period of about 6 years and that would change anybody’s life. So when I stopped travelling, I came home, I realized after a long marriage, 20…
Nancy: 8?
Craig: 27 years.
Nancy: Okay.
Craig: That it was not—we weren’t the same people but the problem was—and this is how it all sets up for my book—the problem was that my mother became terminally ill and I’m an only child and this actually really good friend of mine who is now my ex-wife, we both decided you shouldn’t tell somebody that and put that on their plate and [unclear] start everything that’s going on… So for 3 years, we were still “married” but we weren’t. We were just kind of holding it together. And so, let’s just say when I‘ve—
Frank: Does that mean you were living together? Or you—
Craig: When my mother passed away, I was so ready to date. I just wanted to go out.
Nancy: Wow.
Craig: And bottom line, I went on match.com. A friend of mine said, “You got to do it, you got to do it. Oh there’s a great selection, good people, blah, blah, blah…” Well you know, there were some nice people, you do the data sort, you find out who’s in your geographic area, do they smoke, do they not smoke, are they into health or fitness, or they’re not, are they career people, do they have young kids, they have no kids, they have old kids… And you try to do this whole data sort and it was kind of weird but I got into it. It was okay. I said, “Okay, that’s great.” My choice of 10, 15 people. So I basically, I just dated every one of them and I never asked in all my friends, this is [unclear] from age 18 to 60. They basically said, “Well here’s how you do it.”
Frank: And so how old were you at that time?
Craig: Just meet them in Starbucks and you’ll have a drink of coffee. If it looks like it’s going somewhere, then keep it going. If it doesn’t, well then you can bail out after 10 minutes or have another drink with them and go “Oops, I got to go.” And I didn’t do that because I had been—I’m a Chicago guy so I’m hopeless—either [unclear] I’m a Cubs fan. So I hadn’t seen a Cubs game in 3 years. So if a gal in her profile said “I love the Cubs,” I say, “You love the Cubs? So do I. Let’s go see a Cubs game.” She’ll be “Well you haven’t met me yet.” I said, “Yeah but I want to see a Cubs game. Do you?” “Yeah.” “Let’s go.” Boom. And it was a date and you know what? It was a nice time and I realized that if you do something with another person and it’s a mutually agreed upon, proposition where you both want to do it, the chances are you’re going to have a much, much better time just out of the gate because you’re doing something you both wanted to do. And I’ve had probably a hundred fabulous dates. I became friends with a lot of them. Then I realized, it’s not necessarily about romance. And then you start looking and peeling away the layers of the onion and you realize that everything you see in advertising, everything you see in books, the fairytales “they all lived happily ever after” and all the stuff… It’s great but that’s not going to build the relationship that you need to form if you ever do in fact the romance happens. The thing I’ve learned—I don’t know about you, Frank—is there any kind of cologne you can put on that make people absolutely fall in love with you on the first date or the second? Is there a certain word you can say [unclear]—
Nancy: Let me just say, Craig, he’s not wearing it. He’s not wearing it. if he owns it, it is in the bathroom.
Frank: Ever.
Nancy: Ever.
Craig: [unclear]? And he probably owns 5 different brands but none of them will work right, right?
Nancy: Oh my gosh…
Craig: And there’s no particular—new clothes, new look you can wear… I mean, bottom line is you can’t romance happen but you can make a great day happen.
Nancy: Well I can telly you we got a news flash for you. The new cologne is cash.
Frank: A Porsche.
Craig: It doesn’t hurt, I will say. But you know what? I say over my hundred dates, a couple more walk in the park, one of them was Frisbee golf. It’s really interesting that… The bottom line is how you look at a date and now the question is, also by the way I have [unclear] playing in a band and there was a wedding band and we did a lot of anniversary parties and I did [unclear] silver anniversary parties and probably about 5 or 10 golden anniversary and I always ask every one of them. I say, what was your secret? Why are you guys still together? And well, there were a couple good answers. One of them being of course, “he makes me laugh” or trust is a big one. But more than that, the ones who had very successful marriages say, “we just never stopped dating.”
Nancy: Nice. And this is after 25 and 50 years.
Craig: Yeah, oh yeah. And the other thing what’s interesting is there were a couple of course, one guy was this guy who’s like in World War II is really a good old salt, but I thought it was kind of comical because he’s your true “greatest” generation. He just looked at me and goes, “You just cut it out.”
Nancy: Oh my gosh…
Craig: Okay. So you know, maybe there’s a few who had that mentality back then but interesting as we’ve been vowed and you look at how the millenials are completely different than their parents or their parents’ parents. The millenials are actually, they always do their homework. You can’t talk to a millennial without having them look it up to a fact check, do the background and their whole common term—if there’s one term to coin for millenials today—it’s “disruption”. For example, Uber, it’s disrupted the whole car transportation system and they don’t own one car. You look at some places like AirBnB, they book more hotel rooms than any hotel in the world and they don’t own a hotel.
So disruptions are big thing with millenials and they’ve been disrupting marriage. At the end of the day, the actual marriage rate is going down but the divorce rate is absolutely going down because they’re doing things a little differently and most of them are good.
Nancy: Are they even getting married?
Craig: Oh yeah but they’re typically waiting until it’s time to raise a family—
Nancy: Tell us—
Craig: —because they’re not marrying for the sake of marriage. It’s got the lowest marriage rate in 6 decades but when they go down the aisle, their marriages are lasting and working a lot longer and the divorce rates gone down.
Nancy: So define the millenials for us. Who are these people?
Craig: Well millenials I believe goes up through about age 30 or 31 at this point and it goes from—
Nancy: They’re kids.
Craig: —anybody who’s starting the workforce.
Frank: Yeah, I was—
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: —married at 26 though.
Nancy: I was married at 23. Yeah, yeah.
Frank Ah, so you know… They’re kids but so were we…
Nancy: Right, right. Who are we to [unclear]?
Craig: They are kids. I married at 27 and I felt old at that time for getting married and—
Nancy: Wow.
Craig: The typical was you would go out—[unclear] right out of college or when you’re out of college, you get married in.
Nancy: My parents were married at 18.
Craig: Oh sure.
Nancy: Yeah.
Craig: Oh sure. And it will vary again, I live in downtown city Chicago and actually I’m living in the west [unclear] and that is millennialville. I mean, you are in the heart of the restaurant, hot restaurant [unclear]…
Frank: Then that make you hip?
Craig: Oh yeah, I’ve reached the average age here by atleast 10 years. But you know what, I find that, what’s interesting also and the reason that the marriage rate is going down but the marriage is lasting longer is the change in women.
Smart women today realize that chivalry should never die. [unclear]—
Nancy: Say that again.
Craig: —all about the technology-ish…
Frank: You know how I am.
Craig: It’s guided their [unclear] not do his homework especially this day of instant information and whatnot, if the person is not perceptive enough to have something pre-planned and showed that woman a good date if you will, she’s very sceptical of going out with that guy long term because it shows a lot of commitment to any kind of relationship whether it’s romantic or not.
Frank: Now that we have your attention, let me formally introduce him. Today’s guest has developed a new methodology for two people to go out together, is one that separates dating from romance, where dating becomes simpler, more meaningful and enjoyable, and most of all, more successful. I got to say my interest is a little peaked. So…
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: If you, like me, want to know what it means to date for life and what the four keys to dating for life are and how to become the person, the kind of person that you’re looking for is looking for…
Nancy: I like that.
Frank: Then stay tuned as your Frank Relationship Team talks with author, musician and entrepreneur, Craig Wilson. Welcome to the show, Craig.
Craig: It’s glad—I’m glad to be here, thank you very much Frank.
Frank: Give everything you’ve said, if you have—one of the reasons people don’t jump fully into a date, meaning what they want to do, go to a Cubs game although who goes to a Cubs game?
Nancy: Stop it. Stop it. I apologize, Craig.
Craig: I walked into that one [unclear].
Nancy: Yes, he’s a caught up.
Frank: But one of the reasons people don’t do that is because they are interested in preserving their safety or they want to be safe. They want to meet at Starbucks to look somebody in the eye to make sure they’re not looking like Nancy, I mean that kind of thing. So, how do you—
Nancy: You don’t want to meet me at Starbucks, buddy…
Frank: You don’t. Believe me, you don’t want to meet Nancy at Starbucks. She’s way too beautiful for that.
Nancy: Thank you.
Frank: Nancy, Nancy is really a classic.
Nancy: Oh my goodness, thank you Frank.
Frank; Now, I got to go back to teasing now.
Nancy: Here we go…
Frank: But anyway, how do you deal with that security issue? Or do you admit that there’s a security issue? What do you have there?
Nancy: Well wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, Craig… Before you answer that, I got to tell you this and I’m telling you especially because you are in Chicago…
Craig: Yeah…
Nancy: So I have a great friend, a wonderful friend who lives in Chicago and he used to use Match which is now like—there’s so many other ones now that Match is kind of like the dinosaur, right?
Craig: Yeah.
Nancy; So the bottom line is , he goes out with this woman… And you know, they do the match thing—
Frank: Is she cute?
Nancy: Here’s the deal, they do the match thing, they agree to meet and he’s going to take her out out because he’s not a guy that meet you in a coffee shop either, right? So he meets the woman and instantly he looks at her and he says, “You lied to me!”
Frank: Your picture ain’t you.
Nancy: Her picture was he said Nancy—
Frank: 40 years old.
Nancy: She was atleast 50lbs heavier than the woman in the picture. So I can see, now they went out, they had a nice time, no harm, no foul. However, I can see that that might be some of what had somebody say “I’ll meet you at Starbucks” basically size up the terrain, make sure it is what it says it is, and we head forward.
Craig: Well you know, I remember one time too but it can’t just [unclear] you. Basically, we’re supposed to meet—
Frank: Yes it can.
Craig: —[unclear] at Italian restaurant and we’re going to meet at the bar and then have dinner.
Nancy: Okay.
Craig: And I’m at the bar for atleast half an hour looking around, “Where could she be, where could she be?” she was standing next to me for about 20 minutes.
Nancy: What?
Craig: There is no way. I couldn’t recognize her at all.
Nancy: And she didn’t say anything to you?
Craig: Well yeah… and it was kind of strange.
Frank: She was telling you that you didn’t look the same either.
Craig: It was strange because I said, “Oh gosh, you must have changed your hair.” And so we basically talked for a while and had a dinner. I waited, I wasn’t like you friend where you go, “You lied to me!”
Nancy: Right!
Craig: I mean, I had to bring it up.
Nancy: Right.
Craig: So, we were having dinner, we’re getting near the dessert—because you have to eat anyway. So I decided, and the mentality here is: look, I’m already here. I’m going to make a good night of it. So we’re chatting about whatever and I can go into that in a bit because the first key to dating for life is obviously pursue agreed upon interest. So were both going to go and have Italian because she liked Italian and I liked Italian. So atleast I was going to get a good Italian dinner.
The second key I think is really key to people that are truly dating for relationships. And by the way, dating for life is not dating for wife. You don’t want to be always—the worse thing in the world…
Frank: To look for a life partner.
Craig: The worse thing, “Is this the one?” Because the minute you open that door, there’s a door and mister wonderful’s going to come walking through, it isn’t going to be… and because you’ve set such a high platform and your expectations are too high. So number 2 key is, check no expectations. No. Just say “I just hope—I have high hopes but low expectations.”
So I didn’t know what I was going to see but I certainly wasn’t looking for The One. The third key is that you’re there. So the whole key to life is interchange learn and grow. So bottom line is, you’re going to learn more by talking to people, finding what they’re about and before you know it, you covered a lot of time over your date.
And then the fourth key is continue expressed gratitude. If nothing else, you had a nice Italian dinner—well you have to say on this one gal, toward the end of the dinner, okay? And I was engaging—and I’ll leave the story with a little tale end tag but the bottom line, I had to ask the question, Frank. So I said, “I just got to know. “Why did you put such a profile picture on because that’s got to be like 20 years ago?” And I didn’t say that she was also about just [unclear] too heavy but she was. And she—
Frank: It’s not too heavy, it’s “heavier”. You’re not being nice, Craig.
Craig: Well, you know what? That was one of the date was over. So basically, I get a lot of free meals this—when I just looked at her like a really…
Nancy: Did she say that?
Craig: I said, you know “That’s not going to get you anywhere.”
Frank: Oh I like it. She has got… She got game.
Craig: And so I said “Check please.”
Nancy: She actually said that to you?
Craig: But [unclear] because we exchanged and because I learned a little bit more about her, I actually learned about a subject matter in a particular business endeavor that I wasn’t aware of and I learned a few other things… So you know, and you never want to burn a relationship and that’s more important than anything else because I actually dated a gal that… geographically was desirable, face great, everything was nice except there wasn’t a real attraction but you know, we’ve gone out a few times. And so, to do the right thing—and that’s all about doing the right thing. I did not want to just dump her, send her an email, not show up, not text her. So I basically call her in the middle of the week, I just went and said, “Look, I’ve been thinking about it. We have a good time together. I don’t know that this is going to be anything more than a friendship but I already invite you for Saturday night and we got a dinner to show. Let’s do it. but I want to do it more as friends if that’s okay with you. Because I don’t want to drop you, leave you high and dry to first—with nothing going on this weekend. So I already got the ticket. What do you think?” She said, “Sure. No problem. If that’s what you want.” So we went out, had a nice time and at the end of the night, she said, “So this is it.” I said, “Well no, we’re still friends right?” She goes, “You don’t want to kiss me goodnight?” I was like, “I’ll give you a hug. Okay.” That’s it, I gave her a hug.
Nancy: Wow.
Frank: That’s—
Craig: Two weeks later—
Nancy: Wait a minute, wait a minute…
Craig: Two weeks later, she’s at a networking event and she runs into a gal who’s very creative, okay? Written a lot of books, her name’s Melissa Giovagnoli. Melissa happened to be telling her “Hey, I’m dating this banker. He’s kind of boring, does nothing really in it for me. He’s not creative. I’m a creative.” And the gal goes, “I got the perfect guy for you.” She waited, “Well how do you know him?” “Well he dumped me.”
Frank: And you’re married to her now?
Craig: “What do you mean he dumped you? And she said, “Well yeah. But he elegantly dumped me, and he’s a really nice guy and the bottom line is we weren’t a good fit anyway. I couldn’t scandal like creative craft [unclear].” She said, “You guys are going to get along really well.”
So a gal that I dumped elegantly fixed me up with the love of my life.
Nancy: Did she get the banker?
Craig: I’ll just say that I think that after dating me, she ended up with a guy that had lots of money but I think that was her goal all along. But no more [unclear] where she wanted—I don’t know that that will buy her any happiness though.
Nancy: I hear ya.
Frank: Welcome to Frank Relationships where the show’s specifically tailored for my middle-aged brethren and those that love them. We promise every listener especially our brothers that you’ll walk away from each week’s show with new information, a new perspective or a new disposition that’ll help you be a better parent and partner.
I’m Frank Love and you can find me, my blog and my various social media incarnations at franklove.com.
You can also find me on ABC’s Good Morning Washington most Friday mornings during the 9 o’ clock hour. If you’re listening to the show on Blog Talk Radio, please follow us and if via iTunes, please subscribe so that you can effortlessly get each week’s show.
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Greetings to my super duper co-host, Nancy Goldring.
Nancy: Hi Frank.
Frank: The consummate generalist, you’ve already introduced yourself earlier, gave your tag line and all that good stuff, you gave it away.
Nancy: No listen, we’re playing a new game.
Frank: Alright.
Nancy: I’m having fun. That’s my job here. Okay.
Frank: We’re also joined by today’s visiting co-host, Queen Tahiyrah.
Nancy: Yes…
Frank: Greeting, Queen Tahiyrah.
Queen Tahiyrah: Greetings, greetings. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here and I’ve learned a lot already.
Nancy: See that? See that? You having fun yet?
Frank: Well jump in whenever you’re ready.
Nancy: Yes please.
Frank: Who are you and what do you do when you aren’t guest co-hosting on this show? See I’ve given away a little bit of what you do already.
Queen Tahiyrah: Yes, yes. Again, thank you for having me. Hello, Nancy and hello to your guest, Craig. Yeah, I’m a host of a broadcast called “Sign O the Times”. We are on a network o Blog Talk Radio called Nu Power Radio Network. We air Tuesdays through Friday, 6pm to 8pm, Eastern Standard Time and we’re excited to be a part of your network and excited to have this new friendship with you and Nancy and the radio network that you represent. So… Thank you for having me and I’m glad to be here.
Nancy: Sure.
Frank: Thank you.
Nancy: Thank you, really.
Frank: Now, quick question for you. Just a little housekeeping. I just want to get this out of the way.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: Queen Tahiyrah, why do you think I’m better looking than Nancy?
Nancy: Because she’s only seen you.
Queen Tahiyrah: You know Nancy, you took the word right out of my mouth. That’s exactly the reason why.
Nancy: Thank you, honey.
Frank: Alright. I don’t like where this is going.
Nancy: So he redirects. That’s his thing.
Frank: Yeah, okay.
Nancy: His way or the highway.
Frank: Jeff, we got a caller that we need to drop. As is the case this week with Queen Tahiyrah, there’s a visiting guest co-host chair available each week here in the studio. So if you’re in the Washington D.C. area or travelling to the D.C. area and want to join us in the studio on a given Thursday morning, email me at frank@franklove.com and let me know.
Before we go any further into the interview with Craig, I need to check in to see what’s new in the world of relationships.
Nancy: Oh wow.
Frank: So this is… The floor is open for Craig and Queen Tahiyrah, and Nancy, you can just listen.
Nancy: Oh thank you.
Frank: You got to listen to that? You’re going to do that?
Nancy: Am I going to tolerate that? Of course.
Frank: Right… Alright. Psychologists say that there are all kinds of reason for what makes a happy marriage. Well what does the brain say? So scientists say lasting relationships come down at 3 basic traits: empathy for the other person, controlling your own stress and emotions, and positive illusions—meaning the simple ability to overlook what you don’t like about your partner and focus on what you do. I got to attest, that is extremely powerful—
Nancy: Is it?
Frank: —to just to say whatever.
Nancy: Yeah.
Frank: About what your partner’s doing that you don’t like.
Nancy: Right.
Frank: And to be able to say “But this is what I do like. Like I love this about you.”
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: I don’t like that but I love this, let’s deal with what I love.
Nancy: Let’s work it out. Oh okay, okay. What say you Queen?
Queen Tahiyrah: Well it’s always best to be honest and…
Frank: What’s this have to do with honesty? It got nothing to do with honesty. This is illusions.
Queen Tahiyrah: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it’s best sometimes to focus on the things that you do have in common and the things that you don’t have in common have a less weight factor in the relationship or and the date even. So like Craig said, you find out what you like and you do it and you proceed forward or you don’t. I’m out of the dating field for about atleast the past 10 years I’ve been single. So I’m excited to learn something today. Maybe I haven’t been as open as I thought I was to dating that’s why it’s been so long. So I don’t know. It’s a tricky, tricky world especially with the social media and it’s so easy to meet the people by getting to know someone is totally different. So…
Frank: Did I hear you say you’re single but you’re not in the dating world?
Queen Tahiyrah: Well not as—essentially because I had children to raise and that kind of thing. So they became my priority and I… You know, my personal life kind of took a backseat so…
Frank: Boom…
Queen Tahiyrah: I’m ready to resume the driving position…
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: Well we have you on with the perfect guest. Craig talks about how there are—what’d you say 53 million single women? And you also mentioned that there’s a good percentage of people that are single but they take themselves out of the dating loop completely. Craig?
Craig: Well I think—you know, I do have a question for you, Queen because you got kids, I take it you focused your time on spending with the kids and one thing—and again, there’s ever category from millenials right down to seniors to the [unclear] to married without kids or with kids… One of the top categories you could say is being married¬—sorry, being single and having children. but Queen, did you ever go on dates with your kids?
Queen Tahiyrah: Oh yeah, all the time.
Frank: Really?
Craig: See…
Queen Tahiyrah: And I think that having that extra—
Craig: I would think that they have a good time?
Queen Tahiyrah: Yeah.
Frank: Who has a good time going out with your mother?
[Cross Talking]
Queen Tahiyrah: I mean, almost on a daily basis especially in the summer time. We’re always engaged with one another and… You know, not that the opportunity then arises so… Because I am fairly attractive like Nancy.
Nancy: There you go.
Queen Tahiyrah: But…
Nancy: She is Queen.
Queen Tahiyrah: You know, it’s just the secondary—second position.
Nancy: Yeah.
Frank: Now I mean, who told you you’re fairly attractive Queen? I mean, how do you get to the point where you say “I’m attractive”?
Nancy: First—
Frank: I mean, I’m there. But—
Nancy: Let me just say I understand that you are actually being modest. She said “fairly” attractive. So we can’t—based on that alone—pretty much guarantee that when we see her, we’ll be like “Oohh…”
Frank: She fine.
Nancy: [unclear] right.
Frank: Okay.
Nancy: So…
Frank: Queen, do you—how old are your children?
Queen Tahiyrah: Well my oldest is 30—
Nancy: Nice.
Queen Tahiyrah: —and my youngest are twins and they’ll be 24, the fourth of July.
Frank: Ah, so you can actually hang out with your kids.
Nancy: Wow.
Frank: And did you—when you said you’ve been single for 10 years, so… Well I guess you were with your co-parent up until they were able to basically function on their own, is that about right?
Queen Tahiyrah: About right, about right. But you know, I’m just one of those parents that—one that is willing to I guess cut the strings when they turned 18. So I still wanted to be available and to be honest, I really wasn’t… For being me as [unclear]. So because I guess maybe I have a lot more confidence than myself that I thought I did but yeah, I’m just… I’m waiting for I guess a twinkle in my eye to occur when I meet someone but I’m open and [unclear] to it especially at this stage in the game. I haven’t—definitely I’m not off the market. I just want to make that clear.
Frank: You hear that guys?
Craig: Why don’t you give out your hashtag and your blog and then so if you can get [unclear] after the show…
Frank: Ahh… Seriously, do that.
Nancy: Yes, Queen.
Craig: You know, Queen I’m just thinking about it and there’s like 13, 14 million single parents—
Frank: Uhh Craig?
Craig: —and the bottom line is…
Frank: Craig?
Craig: Yeah?
Frank: You didn’t let her give it out. I mean, let her—
Craig: Oh so you’re really serious?
Frank: Yeah. Give out your website. I mean, let people know how to find your show or something because the right person’s going to—you know, if you give out your website and they’re interested, they’re going to find you. So it could be your website, or take it to your Twitter and they’re going to catch you on your Twitter thing and that sort of thing. So please tell us how to find you.
Queen Tahiyrah: You can find me on Facebook as Queen Tahiyrah and also on Blog Talk Radio, on Nu Power Radio Network like I said Tuesdays through Fridays. So yeah, look me up on Facebook as Queen Tahiyrah, send me a friend request and we can get to know each other.
Frank: And how is Tahira spelled?
Queen Tahiyrah: T-A-H-I-Y-R-A-H.
Nancy: Fabulous.
Frank: And this—and of course we’re not just asking folks who want to date you to check you out.
Nancy: Yes we are.
Frank: Also check her out—
[Cross talking]
Nancy: Don’t call if you’re not serious.
Frank: No, check out her show.
Nancy: Oh yeah, yeah. That’s so true. Well they’re really going to check out the show because they’re checking her out, you know. That’s part of the research.
Frank: But check out the show even if you’re not interested at dating her.
Nancy: Oh.
Queen Tahiyrah: That’s right, that’s right. I love the support. We love the energy. You know, we have a great group that work with Nu Power Radio Network across the country. So… definitely please look us up and please be a part of the conversation because we’re about healing and communicating in our community and we know that that is what is necessary for us to be a better society, be a better group and to make our children as safe and secure as possible. So yeah, look us up…
Nancy: Nice.
Frank: And new is spelled?
Queen Tahiyrah: N-U.
Frank: Thank you.
Queen Tahiyrah: Nu Power Radio Network.
Nancy: Oh cool.
Queen Tahiyrah: N-U Power Radio Network.
Frank: Okay. Alright, alright. And… What do you think about what I said around safety? Do you—I don’t know if you’ve been on date within the last 10 years but if you were to go on a date, would you—
Nancy: Meet at Starbucks?
Frank: —want to meet the guy at Starbucks? Right.
Nancy: Please.
Queen Tahiyrah: I definitely would meet in a public place initially.
Frank: What—
Queen Tahiyrah: And not necessarily for safety reasons but just to be able to have that one-on-one interaction. I figured at a baseball game, that might be a good second date but the distractions around, you know, that type of atmosphere might be a little much to initially be trying to get to know someone but…
Nancy: You’re confusing baseball with something else. It’s a very slow moving aim…
Frank: What if he said “Come to my office. I’m really busy right now but I would love to just have you around. Come over to my office and help me stuff these envelopes.”
Nancy: (Buzz sound)
Frank: No ser— Would you do that?
Nancy: NEXT!
Queen Tahiyrah: No, no. That was [unclear]…
Nancy: Craig?
Craig: I’d have to ask is that basically mutually agreed upon interest? Because that’s the whole first key to a date. If that person just got [unclear]
[Cross talking]
Frank: Look at Craig, jumping right it.
Craig: —stuffing envelopes? I’m in. Well then maybe.
Queen Tahiyrah: Yeah…
Craig: I [unclear] I would say no…
Nancy: Okay, okay. I like what you said though about the guy taking the time to set up… you know, an interesting date experience.
Frank: I like it—
Nancy: Okay but here’s the deal though, Craig. Is it on the guy?
Craig: Good question. And I think one of the reasons that millenials are more successful in when they form relationships and they’re not in a hurry to do it, they’re more focused on career, paying off their college debt, whatever but—
Frank: You’re not focused on paying…
Craig: In millennial parents, the man does contribute almost as much to the relationship in terms of raising kids, doing chores as a woman. So they’re much more egotarian which is a good thing but I think that it still boils down more than that and—there’s always exception to the rule—but where the guy asks a girl out, and if you’ve seen or heard mentality, they all hang out which is do it in bed, I deal with that in my book a little bit but… It’s okay to hang as a group and then when you’ve sense a little bit of chemistries, a couple people splinter off, that can work… But then there’s peer pressure if it’s not dynamic as was before when we’re all group. But normally, the guy’s job is still to ask the girl out and the thing that’s really interesting with millenials is they do more than the last 3 generations when they do plan to finally ask somebody to marry them. They do everything from a flash mob where they do a whole dance routine they ask the girl out or they do this thing—
Frank: Yeah, yeah. I did that.
Craig: I mean it’s unbelievable what they do when they finally commit.
Nancy; It’s a wonder you got a yes.
Craig: It’s kind of romantic, frankly.
Nancy: Nice, nice.
Frank: I’m going to… I disagree with everybody… in some sense. So if I was busy and wanting to get to know a woman, I would love for her to jump into my world for—even if it’s a first date. Come on by the office, I would love to have you around, I’d love to get to know you. I just don’t really have any dating time right now but I’m working on a proposal. I’m working on a letter to so and so, and would love to have your input. Why don’t you stop by and help me out?
That’s a way to get to know each other OR I’m going to the gym in the morning, why don’t you join me at the gym? Or, let me just stop by and we can go for a walk? So it really is an opportunity for us to get to know each other and be around each other. It don’t have to be an opportunity for me to kind of… I want to say pandered to you.
Craig: But Frank, that was well put and you can’t argue with the logic. The key word here [unclear] was or because I think as long as you can find—and first date’s great to just go for a walk. Absolutely great. Or just enjoy the day and sit on a river and have a lunch break. In fact, it’s just lunch does a great job where people too busy, they meet for lunch and it’s a good way to connect. It is technically a date but it’s all about the paradigm date. What you’re trying to do is you’re shifting that Frank, which is good. Saying, “You know what? Let’s just get together. What would you like to do to get together?”
And the key here is you’re still initiating it because you’ve asked this person out and so technically, you’re saying “Where can we meet just to have a casual get-together?” There is nothing wrong with that because it’s all about dating and frankly, it’s not about romance. It’s about dating.
Nancy: That’s a critical distinction. I just want you to know. This whole concept of developing a relationship versus a romance, I ahve to tell you that I personally have collapsed the two terms as it relates to men and women—
Frank: Bring it.
Nancy: —for my entire life.
Frank: Bring it.
Nancy: So that is a totally foreign concept to me if a guy wants to take me on a date. My precept position is that there is a romance in the offing. Whether it gets off the ground or not, is to be determined. However, the place I’m standing is, he’s up to something. Not necessarily negative bad like romances like some kind of trick bag which it often tends to be.
Frank: Is that a nice way of saying he’s trying to get the—
Nancy: No, Frank. It is not a nice way of saying it. It is saying it. Okay? See I’m learning to catch up to speed with the way he rolls here. So the bottom line is this notion of developing a relationship versus romance and you did say I think—somewhere I saw when I was doing my research, that… romance can start in an instant but connection is built over time. So…
Craig: That is well point. And you’re actually right. Problem is, dating in today’s society can be a stigma. “Oh god, I haven’t been on a date in years.” Well, you have. You just haven’t looked at it from that perspective and to Queen, to your point, with all the single parents. If a guy is just walking down a pathway and there’s a woman who’s beautiful in her face because of her expression and she’s either having fun with her child, pushing a little kid on a swing, or just out in the field playing with a kid and dog, and that woman is in pure joy, who’s more attractive? That woman or a woman who’s going “Sit down, John!” or “Get over here!” right? I mean, it’s how you project yourself.
And so the woman that looks at being with her children as an act of joy and it’s a love, right? That person has a much more beautiful expression, they’re going to be more attractive to people in terms of who want to be her friend, who want to get to know her, and it could evolve into a relationship as well.
Queen Tahiyrah: That’s right.
Craig: So if you get rid of the stigma of the word “date” and say, “I’m just getting together some people and we’re going to have a good time.”
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: What say you, Queen? Were you out with your kids yelling at them because they—
Nancy: Threatening their lives…
Frank: Right, right. They’re messing up in school, mad at the dinner table when you’re out in the restaurant…
Nancy: Showing off at Walmart…
Frank: It’s Target…
Nancy: Oh sorry.
Frank: See she goes to Target.
Nancy: I don’t go to Walmart.
Frank: See? That’s what I mean. Of course, you’re in a high class. See? She’s high class too. That’s—she’s trying to—that’s dirty Nancy. That’s not right. You can’t pigeon hole her into Walmart.
Nancy: I’m not trying to pigeon hole her into Walmart! I’m trying to get Walmart as a sponsor.
Frank: Oh okay. Alright.
Frank: Okay, Queen—
Nancy: [unclear] focusing on their shadow size is not going to get by going hey Queen.
Queen Tahiyrah: Yeah, I mean to this day, I still have more male friends than I do female friends and you’re right. That energy is attractive. Even if in a social situation, that energy is definitely attractive and men have a tendency to gravitate towards you know, happier women. I definitely agree with that. So… it never was an issue. It was me holding the unwillingness from my end moreso than the availability of men to me. So yeah, it was great raising my children. it was great even getting together with other parents, male and female, and spending time with their children as well.
So dating doesn’t necessarily, you know, like you said equal to romance. It’s about finding out who we are in people and getting to know one another. So yeah, I enjoyed it. I have no regrets or feel like it was anything that could have been better as vested in other than my children. so yeah, it was cool.
Nancy: Nice.
Frank: I can effectively co-sign what you guys are saying about a smiling woman being absolutely beautiful [unclear].
Nancy: Nice.
Frank: Particularly versus one with a scowl on her face. Ugh…
Queen Tahiyrah: Yeah.
Frank: You’re listening to Frank Relationships and we’re joined by musician, entrepreneur, Craig Wilson. Craig is the author of Dating for Life. Craig, would you please tell our listeners what you’re up to and how we can find you.
Craig: Well thanks Frank. I have a website, that’s datingforlife.com. As an author, I’m also craigswilson.com and yeah, I’m kind of serial creative so—
Frank: Say that again. A comaser—
Nancy: A serial creative.
Frank: A kind of a serial creator. See? I thought you were running words together. I can’t—
Craig: And bottom line is I went away from the Dating For Life for a while because just a small side by, I have a recruiting business and so I come by the [unclear] played a thousand weddings and seen people get married and then having a recruiting business where we probably matched thousands of candidates up with new perspective hirers. I almost like I’m doing dating-coaching if you will inadvertently my entire career.
So I have a new book coming out. It’s all about the—actually about a brother saying his two twin sisters who are 6 years old in the slums of Rio just as they are staring to clear it out for the Olympics. It’s called “Rio Street Kids Stargazer” that’s coming out in a week or two. But I am kind of re-launch a Dating For Life book next year, kind of like Dating For Life 2 and it’s all about what’s happened since the last book. It’s fun but at the end of the day, enjoy your date with life because every day is a gift and if you look at it as a date and you plan anything out and I know life can control you but you can still do your best to control it by planning a very good date with life. I think the methodology is rock solid for anyone at any age and so I’m having fun with it. my joy with the book is when people dropping me notes from around the world saying “Thanks so much. I read your book. It was a great tip,” or “It helped me find someone that’s a long term partner,” or “I’ve just been having more fun with dates,” as simple as that.
Frank: You have noted that Valentine’s Day is unimportant. Why is that?
Craig; Well actually if you look at the history of Valentine’s Day, it was kind of a sad event. Valentino, he was killed by Caesar for encouraging a relationship. But then again, that’s kind of a greeting card holiday. So it’s again a paradigm. The pressure’s put on someone for Valentine’s Day—
Frank: Not “someone,” the guy.
Craig: That’s actually the non-dating season. People do not want to date. They don’t want to go out with anybody right around the holidays, right on through Valentine’s and right after Valentine’s. It’s when open dating season usually begins in people’s mindset because well there’s no pressure on me to either be tight with somebody just before Valentine’s when its only 3, 4 weeks before. I’m not going to go out until after Valentine’s. It’s just how people look at things. So it’s really not important and frankly if you look at every date with someone as a potential Valentine’s day, then you are honouring what dating for life is. The guy that shows up for any date well prepared, “Let’s have some fun tonight. I looked in your profile and by the way information’s so out there. Queen, you have a great website by the way for your Facebook and I like what you’ve done so.
Bottom line, if you have a chance to do a homework, and you get to know that person a little bit more before you even meet them, my word—I mean, think about how you can develop a relationship having those points to connectivity that in the old days you just were filming around because you didn’t have social media. Today, you should know a lot about somebody before you even meet them. And so you plan a little bit ahead, do a little bit of homework, find out what they like, you’re going to have a good time. That’s all that matters.
Frank: Well what if the goo time is learning about the person instead—while fumbling and bumbling and not having done the homework?
Craig: Good question.
Frank: Thank you.
Craig: But you’re just learning enough about points of connectivity. Like you’re asking good questions Frank. That’s when you learn about somebody a little bit more, their likes, dislikes, things that they’ve done in their career. that just prompts more questions, right? Like you just asked. So the more you have points of connectivity, the more when you’re talking to somebody and I don’t care who it is. Again, if you can make a great day happen, you can make romance happen.
So the key is, you’re able to talk for a lot longer period of time and I’m a glib kind of guy and so are you Frank. But I don’t mind—
Frank: Thank you.
Craig: [unclear].
Nancy: Wait a minute. Bottom line is what, Craig?
Craig: Hey Frank, how can you not? Who you are, you’re on radio but there’s a lot of guys that would [unclear] hole if they’re doing what we’re doing right now but the more research they do and the more they know about someone, the more they have things to talk about, so they’re not fumbling around. Fumbling makes you nervous.
Nancy: Okay. Maybe that’s… You know I’m listening to you and I’m thinking about my own profiles and how profile averse I am.
Frank: Profile of? Like on match.com or…?
Nancy: And meaning on social media and as I thought about the context of dating, I felt like okay, I could put some stuff out there that historically like. Now, what I—
Frank: Like what?
Nancy: Like what… I like the movies, I line yoga, I like food—though I don’t eat much of it. I like travelling, I like books, I love books… I like artsy films, I like foreign things…
Frank: Okay, you made your point.
Nancy: So… But here was my dilemma even as I think you got to get your profile together… So I’m thinking yeah, but if you approach me from what—
Frank: On your profile, you’re going to think they’re weird.
Nancy: —on my profile… No, no, no… Not even that I’m going to think you’re weird, it’s going to get kind of flat for me. So one of the—
Frank: There’s no discovery?
Nancy: Yeah. So one of the things that… Because it’s almost like right after I finish the profile, it’s like so yesterday. I’m like on to what’s next.
Frank: That’s real.
Nancy: Yeah.
Frank: She’s the consummate generalist. She is learning something new—
Nancy: All the time.
Frank: You talk to her about artsy films when she hadn’t seen one in 3 years since she did her profile… She’s going to look at you like you’re late.
Nancy: Catch up.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Nancy: I’m off to movies I’m on to time now. So but here’s the deal… It’s like, you know, when Frank said and I thought “Boy, this is such a dicey situation.” When he said “Oh meet me at the office, I’m working on this proposal, maybe you can help me out” and I’m sitting here like “Geez, Luis. I can see myself saying, ‘Okay.’ ”
Frank: Yeah! I can see you say that.
Nancy: I can see myself saying “Okay”.
Frank: Thank you. Go on say “Frank, that’s right.”
Nancy: You had it, you nailed it. Now here’s where I get off though… It has to segway into something that is fun. Now it doesn’t mean that I didn’t have fun with you but—
Frank: That can’t be every time ya’ll connect.
Nancy: —at some point, it can’t be every time that we connect that we’re at work and that we’re at the gym. I need to have some magic. Now that’s the one thing I can put on my profile that is consistent. I need some magic guys.
So I kind of like getting together. The guy fumbles because I need to see him fumble. That’s real. Fumbling is real. So I don’t want to give you all these information to give me who I already am because I’m looking to as you say, “learn and grow.”
So I don’t need more of what I already got. I need something new.
Frank: You are juts—
Craig: Such—that’s good point but I would say that women are smarter than men. I mean, sorry that’s just true.
Frank: Uhh speak for yourself.
Craig: [unclear] like the dog in the movie Up [unclear].I mean they’re just very linear and women are a lot more layered and so you can guide a guy to enhance or whatever… The problem a woman who agrees to that, and let’s say I said to you “Hey Queen, you want to go out?” and you say “Okay. So what are we going to do tonight?” “Well you know, I got tickets to this mud wrestling event. it’s supposed to be great.” Now you go, “Okay.” Well what are you doing to setting up for a bad evening? And the whole time before, you’re going to be talking to your girlfriends going ‘This guy just asked me to a mud wrestling event. I mean, and what the heck is that?” right? So the bottom line is, a woman has the choice and has the ability to say “What do you like to do? What’s fun for you?” and [unclear] if the guys says “Oh this is what I like to do. I like to hang in bars…”—and by the way, I’m not saying that this is very bad. But based on your profile and what you say was important. If a guy says “Yeah, I like to go cliff diving, I like to watch roosters in a cock fight” and blah, blah, blah. And he throws five things out there, and you’re cringing on every one of them.
It’s probably not going to be a good relationship no matter what it is… Friendship, whatnot because you’re not going to have a good time on anything he throws out. If he throws out 2 out of 5, you might have 20 or 40% chance in having a good time. If he throws out 5, 6, 8 things and you’re like “Wow, that would be fun, that’d be fun, that’d be fun…” then you paired up enough things that you’re going to have a pretty good time going out. The guy that asks a girl out because he’s strictly drive by her looks and the interesting thing is, brains, your serotonin, if you [unclear] in half a second, you see somebody and you go “Wow, she’s good looking. I want to go out with her.” You realize that it takes sometimes up for a year for the heart to confirm love.
Brain is an impulse. It’s true. It’s absolutely medically proven. Serotonin is emitted and it feels certain woe. But the reality is it takes a year for the heart to confirm love that’s why people should wait and take their time in learning one another. But just because someone wants to go out with somebody, that’s not enough reason. You need to ask questions like “What do you like to do?”
Nancy: Okay.
Craig: And a smart woman can find out 2, 3, 4 things from a guy that would be fun to do. You’ve got enough on that basis along to go forward and then you can fumble all you want.
Nancy: Got it.
Frank: Nancy.
Nancy: Yes?
Frank: We’ve got Miko’s money management tip for the week.
Nancy: Oh nice. I want to hear it.
Frank: Here we go.
Miko: Are you feeling financially defeated? Wishing someone will rescue you from your financial woes? Or hoping to win the lottery? For most of us, these events may never happen. So instead of waiting, get active and rescue yourself.
Here are 6 ways to be your own financial superhero or shero…
1. Be financially honest. Tell yourself and those that rely on you the truth about your situation.
2. Forgive yourself and others for financial missteps. If you make a mistake, examine what happened, forgive yourself and move forward.
3. Make a budget and set clear financial goals. Having a plan will give you confidence and help you prioritize your financial needs.
4. Commit to delay gratification. It will help you build financial stamina.
5. Be consistent. Review your goals and budget often to stay on track.
6. Do not give up. Your biggest enemy is you. If you want to doubt yourself, doubt that you will fail because success is your only option.
And if your superhero needs a sidekick, I’m happy to help. Call Miko’s Money Matters at 202-695-2404. Remember, it’s never too late to rescue your financial future.
Frank: Thanks, Miko.
This is Frank Relationships where the show’s specifically tailored for my middle-aged brethren and those that love them. We promise every listener especially our brothers that you’ll walk away from each week’s show with new information, a new perspective or a new disposition that’ll help you be a better parent and partner.
You can find this in our archive show, they’re well over a hundred at franklove.com on Blog Talk, iTunes and Stitcher.
You say it’s not about finding your soulmate, Craig. It’s about having a good time. You can’t plan love but you can plan things to do. It makes sense and yet that point of view has garnered some criticism especially from the ladies but it doesn’t sound like from the ladies here. So what kind of criticism have you been getting?
Craig: Honestly, I haven’t had too much. The only scepticism I think that I’ve had is “Hey, I don’t have a lot of money.” Well, you don’t need to have a lot of money to have a good time. You can find a lot of just natural activities to have a good time if nothing else to connect. It’s just a simple get-together in a park like you said or even meeting in an office. There’s nothing wrong with that if two people basically want to do it. But scepticism is more of the word I think than criticism.
Frank: Got ya. You say “don’t alter what got you to the altar”. What’s that all about?
Craig: Well… like I said, you can plan life but usually life plans you. So if you have found a good formula to going out with somebody and chivalry should never die, then the key is: don’t forget that once you get married. Don’t alter what got you to the altar. Never stop dating. And I’m talking to you about people with their golden anniversaries saying “We just never stopped dating”. “He makes me laugh” okay? “We have fun together.” “We enjoy one another.”
I have a little tip for people that have been married for a while and I do this every night with Melissa. Seriously it’s been 9 years now, wonderful time. When our heads hit the pillow, I whisper in her ear, I said, “I had a wonderful date tonight.”
Nancy: Wow.
Craig And the thing about it, if you’re on your best behavior and you’re dropping your date off on the first date, it was a good date and you’re saying good night and you’re at the front door or whatever, right? And you say “Thanks so much, see you tomorrow, see you next week.” What happened to that 30 years later? Like, “Good night!” or they don’t even say good night. “I’ll see you in the morning” or you know…
Nancy: They just roll over.
Craig: Right? But why would that ever have to change, you know?
Nancy Right, right.
Craig: And I think you made a point earlier Frank about the—I loved it actually—the positive illusion? As long as you still think you’re going out with the love of your life or you’re on this magical date, you are.
Frank: One of the things that I enjoy doing with my wife is—this sounds crazy—is just straightening up our room. And because it gets to be, we got—
Nancy: It’s a discovery.
Frank: —5 children and a lot of the stuff, the clothes that have just been washed end up dumped in our room and particularly when she is what we call… See, I’m really telling her business right now. She’s going to laugh at it but it’s cool. She got this thing that she calls “josie-ing”. Now her grandmother’s name is Josie.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: And she used to live with her grandmother and when her grandmother had company coming by, she basically slide everything, everything that—
Nancy: Was out of place.
Frank: —out of place into the closet.
Nancy: Oh god. Okay.
Frank: Or you know, just hide it all.
Nancy: Got it.
Frank: So she calls it “josie-ing”. Well my wife josies to our room. Everything that needs to be sorted or you know, put in a place, it gets josied in our room. Now, all of that to say, we periodically—like last night—we go on room dates like bedroom dates where we’ll put in her favorite thing in the world, romantic comedies and I just—mind you—I pick up a romantic comedy. I’m at the dollar store or something like that, if I see a romantic comedy somewhere, I’ll pick it up for a couple bucks and just throw it on a DVD player because that’s one of the things she enjoys doing.
Nancy: Lovely.
Frank: So pop in a romantic comedy and fall close. That’s a date for us.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: We call it a “room date.”
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: That works.
Craig: You absolutely got a real popcorn and a Netflix and you arethere.
Nancy: Yeah…
Craig: And… it’s a date.
Frank: Yeah.
Craig: And at the end of the night, why don’t you whisper in her ear, “You know what? That was a great date. Thanks again.”
Frank: I’m not going to do that just because you said it.
Nancy: Craig…
Frank: And she’s listening to this interview. What do you say, Queen?
Queen Tahiyrah: I definitely agree. It’s all about the energy.
Nancy: Yeah.
Queen Tahiyrah: It’s all about finding something that is going to be engaging for both of you. If that works, I’d say keep doing it. And one thing I will say about dating is that it’s very important to be flexible. Not that you are willing to not be who you are or you don’t want the other person to be who they are, but sometimes you might discover something new about yourself by challenging yourself a little bit to come outside of the box. So there’s nothing wrong with having some flexibility as you are on this dating task.
Frank: Nice. Now I, I want to play with a few concepts and we’re wrapping up. I’m going to let you go Craig. But the chivalry, I have an issue with just the general concept of chivalry because what I found in myself over years is that, I got much more—if you want to use the word “chivalrous” but I wouldn’t use that word. But I’ve got much softer as I found my wife was softer. So these days, I do all kinds of stuff. I mean, in the middle of the night when I get up to go down stairs, and I raid the refrigerator, get—or no, in the middle of the night, I get up and get my wife a glass of ice water—
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: —and she loves that.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: And I open doors and all of that kind of stuff now because I just love the softness that she brings and I feel more and more protective as she’s more and more soft.
Nancy: Nurturing.
Frank: Yeah. So that could be seen by somebody looking on as chivalrous but I don’t feel chivalrous. I feel like I’m just happy.
Nancy: You’re responding.
Frank: Yeah. “Babe, is there anything else I can do for you?” “Is there anything I can do for you that’ll put that smile on your face” that we were talking about. That’s not chivalry to me. So… please, somebody take the floor from me. Stop me from running along.
Craig: I like what you’re saying but actually you’re acting in a state of grace and there’s… Any relationship is either spiralling upward or spiralling downward. Every little thing you do keeps turning that crank so that the relationship elevates to a higher level or it starts going down to a lower level and merely opening a door or merely giving a glass of ice water that just keeps taking it to a higher level.
So in a sense, it is chivalry. Maybe not in the old medieval sense and all that stuff but it’s in the act of kindness and the act of grace versus “just get it yourself” or “don’t bother me” or all those kind of little things in any relationship will take it to a higher or lower level.
Frank: What you got, Jeff?
Jeff: Yeah, man. Jamaicans have two words. [unclear / iry] and respect. And what you’re doing is you’re exercising respect and consideration and that makes you feel good.
Frank: Yeah.
Jeff: Because you love her. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: So you might want to call it “chivalry,” pulling out the chair, opening the car door, whatever… that’s respect. That’s consideration. When she feels good, you feel good.
Frank: Yeah.
Jeff: [unclear / Iry].
Frank: However, if she was saying to me—
Nancy: You should…
Frank: “I want you to pull out my chair” or “How come you don’t do what Nancy’s husband does?” I would tell her to kiss my butt…
Nancy: Oh my goodness…
Frank: I mean, I can’t see her doing that—
Nancy: Yeah, yeah.
Frank: But that wouldn’t connect with me at all.
Nancy: I got it.
Frank: That would be a turn off.
Nancy: The fact that you are expected to do something that doesn’t yet come to you naturally.
Frank: Yes.
Nancy: In this situation, it does come to you naturally.
Frank: Yes.
Nancy: And I think that so what you’re saying is the much ore authentic act of grace than if like chivalry, sort of like programming.
Frank: Yes.
Nancy: You’re set up to be—
Frank: You’re supposed to do this.
Nancy: —“good boy”. You know, you get the door, you let her do things first or whatever but when it is genuine and authentic, you feel that. You feel that.
Craig: But again, the other side of the coin, there’s positive spiralling crescendo or a decrescendo. It also can go—when you’re doing this if the partner doesn’t appreciate it or actually like you said, doesn’t recognize it at all, number one or number two, pretty much this “Well you should’ve done that” whatever. That’s on the other partner’s behalf of a big mistake because that will tarnish and diminish that act of kindness and grace. And so, it takes two to tango, it always has and always will.
Nancy: Nice.
Jeff: Nancy, you mentioned it came naturally to Frank. It didn’t or wouldn’t have come naturally 20 years ago. It’s something I think he grew into because I know I did.
Nancy: Okay.
Jeff: If my wife has an extremely busy day or something, I’ll pick up dinner on the way home or even if I’m going to buy her flowers. I know she’s going to appreciate it. that makes me feel good.
Frank: Yeah.
Nancy: Right.
Jeff: Or she’ll call a friend or one of our kids and say, “Guess what dad did? He bought me…” That makes me feel good.
Frank/Nancy: Yeah.
Jeff: I’m also the superstar husband with the other wives [unclear]…
Nancy: No question. That’s right.
Frank: That makes you feel good too.
Nancy: Exactly. It’s another year in the game.
Jeff: But that’s part of the chemistry of a relationship.
Nancy: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: That you either grow into, learn how to adapt—
Nancy: Sure.
Jeff: —and that’s called respect.
Nancy: Okay.
Frank: Queen, you got anything on that?
Queen Tahiyrah: Definitely chivalry is not dead. It’s very much appreciated and we have to realize that often, our brothers have been taught to treat a woman a certain way or not taught. And so, it’s not like it used to be where chivalry was kind of expected or it was part of that first date or part of getting to the romantic side of someone. So it’s not… as prevalent as you might think and it should be, so we have to get that to that because I’m sure there are other ways that your wife shows you how much she appreciates that glass of water.
Frank: There are. Yes. Hey, alright.
Nancy: I’ma let it go, Queen. Oh my goodness.
Frank: Another concept I’ma challenge very quickly as we wrap up is women are smarter than men. I hear me say this all the time. I don’t really believe that.
Nancy: Of course you don’t.
Frank: I think… I mean we’re both smart and stupid… But it’s like—
Nancy: Touché Frank.
Frank: It’s like we both… that’s something men say to…
Nancy: Well I think you know what I think, you’re eluding to—I think you’re eluding to the fact that we have our respective intelligences. So you all guys have your zone and we have ours. Now it doesn’t mean that we can’t develop our intelligences, I can’t strengthen the ways that… you know, the things that make you smart mostly because I can’t figure out what they [unclear]…
Frank: Ahh okay…
Nancy; Alright, alright… But that was my first time ever sticking it to him and I don’t know how long we’ve been on this show.
Craig: Yeah.
Nancy: Boy, that was good. I got to like calm myself down. So… No, but really, listen. Okay I’ll give you a perfect example. So we do this show right? I do what I do for the show, Frank does what he does for the show. And there are definitely things, little aspects of the show that I feel he is masterful at. I don’t hold that like smarter or not smarter. I just feel that he brings a quality and gifts to setting the show up and actually making it flow that just don’t come naturally to me. And so, I’m saying “Hey, can you do this part?” “I’m happy to do this part, can you do that part?” and fortunately for us, it just blends and flows and goes. But I love being able to—your favorite word—defer to his genius. I do, I love to do that. so you know… the whole women are smarter than men thing, I think it’s more about… There’s a certain sensitivity that comes with femininity that I think is maybe where that’s coming from. So there’s a subtlety. And sometimes if you operate in that space of subtlety, you can appear to be able to maneuver, sort of under the cross-current of life and get things done that other people like, “How does she do that?”
Frank: I agree when it’s a subtle woman.
Craig: Well you also got to put it in a time perspective too. I mean, let’s go way back in caveman days, right? Got to [unclear] that gal by her hair into the cave and say “You’re mine, okay?” Seriously.
Nancy: No date.
Craig: That woman had to be pretty dog-on smart to be able to figure out how to maneuver her man… One of my best favourite example is Augustus Caesar ran Rome and had the Roman baths. His wife, I want to know the story about her. Because she somehow convinced him after Julius died and Augustus running Rome, Augustus Caesar’s wife convinced him that maybe women should be able to use the Roman baths from all morning and then in the afternoon, the men could use them. That was one heck of a smart woman because Caesar was pretty much the king and god of the whole Roman civilization and this woman figured out how to get what she wanted. But it’s a bout. Now you look at millenials like I was saying, they were getting much closer and closer to being equal partners where I think the men are more sensitive and you look at today’s movie stars and how they portray characters today. They’re not like the John Wayne [unclear], right? It’s sort of evolving where it’s more of a complete parody but I would still say chivalry both ways like you [unclear] said earlier, it [unclear] upward or down. And so, that’s the kindness and grace absolutely in respect.
Nancy: Nice.
Frank: Along today’s journey, we’ve discussed bad match.com pictures… Nancy, I want you to really think about that.
Nancy: I’m on it, Frank. [unclear] airbrush, Photoshop, the whole deal.
Frank: Smiling women, and dating versus romance. Thank you to my guest co-host, Queen Tahiyrah. Her show is Sign O the Time and you can find it on the Nu Power Network, that’s N-U. Thank you to my co-host, Nancy. Thanks to Jeff Newman, my engineer and thank you for hanging out with Frank Relationships Team. You’ve been great.
I hope you’ve had as much fun as I’ve had hanging out with Craig Wilson, the author of Dating For Life
As always, it’s my wish for you to walk away from this conversation with a heaping helping of useful information that I hope you create a relation that’s as loving and accepting as possible.
A big hearty thank you to you, Craig. Please let us know what you thought of today’s show at facebook.com/relationshipflove, on Twitter at @mrfranklove or at franklove.com. If you’re listening via Blog Talk Radio, make sure you like us there and if via iTunes, make sure you subscribe so that you can receive each week’s show.
This is Frank love.
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